Today's Financial Times - DL MBA Article

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by wannaJD, Mar 25, 2003.

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  1. wannaJD

    wannaJD New Member

    ....has a lengthy article about distance learning MBA programs.

    Most of the top ones (most enrollees) are located in the UK. I see Heriot-Watt got high marks.

    Of course, the Financial Times owns Heriot-Watt.

    1. University of Phoenix 10,984
    2. Heriot-Watt 10,176
    3. Henley Management College 6695
    4. Open University 5500
    5. Warwick Business School 1602
    6. Itesm (Mexico) 1214
    7. University of Durham 1004
    8. University of Liverpool/Kit 723
    9. University of Surrey School of Management - dl program 295
    & their virtual MBA 220
    10. Cardean 464

    Indiana U, Pensylvania State, Babson, Jones International, Virginia Tech were US notables, all have 200 enrollees or thereabout or less.

    I suppose this isn't the first time or the last DL MBA's will be in a fluff article. I found it interesting that the Financial Times owns Heriot-Watt. I suppose this was their opportunity to be among the top schools...second only to UoP on the list, even if "top" only means "most enrollees".

    FWIW, Cardean, according to the article, boasts a program written by Univ of Chicago, Columbia, Stanford, Carnegie Mellon, and London School of Economics. I wonder what their tuition rate is...

    ...also of note...the article mentions AACSB accreditation as the line of demarcation for quality. Yay.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2003
  2. Professor Kennedy

    Professor Kennedy New Member

    Unwarranted slur

    Hi WannaJD

    A major correction. The Financial Times does NOT own Heriot-Watt University. British Universisites are not ownable by private corporations. They are 'owned' by the UK state.

    The Financial Times (UK) is a part of the Pearson Group. It is a newspaper. Another separate part of the Pearson Group, Pearson Education (USA), publishes the MBA Texts written by faculty of EBS and other Business Schools (LBS, Machester, Tulane, INSEAD, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Strathclyde, Des Moines, Buckingham, Imperial College and EBS). They are contracted authors in the normal manner.

    Pearson plays absolutely no role in the academic affairs of Heriot-Watt University or Edinburgh Business School, which owns (it is a limited company wholy owned by the University) the EBS MBA programme.

    I can recollect only two references by FT to Heriot-Watt in the past ten years (one of them a mocking slur and the other this list). The Educaton pages of the FT, to which Ms Della Bradshaw contributes the management education articles, has chosen not to mention our MBA programme over the years, claiming 'editorial privilige and independence', and she has never visited EBS, or spoken on the telephone to the senior faculty members of the EBS Board of Directors.

    Our appearance in this list is a first time event. Your innuendo is as uncharitable as it is unfounded.
     
  3. wannaJD

    wannaJD New Member

    Good grief.

    You sound like many of the pompous asshole professors I've met in real life who couldn't hold down a job to save their lives and so pounce on people who have the common sense to try to be helpful, and informative.

    Before you trounce, read the freakin' paper. It explicitly stated that FT owns Heriot-Watt.

    Take it up with them, not me.

    Until then, kiss off.
     
  4. wannaJD

    wannaJD New Member

    ok. maybe my response was a bit harsh because I hadn't had my coffee yet.
     
  5. Professor Kennedy

    Professor Kennedy New Member

    When I was about 12 years old my School teacher ordered me to write out two hundred times the following sentence:

    "When ignorance predominates vulgarity asserts itself".

    I have never forgotten that. You apparently have never heard of it and your reply to my message is a prime exhibit of its truth.

    The article in the Financial Times, which you misquoted in defence of your ill-tempered and ignorant assertion states:

    "The Heriot-Watt MBA is marketed by Pearson, owner of the Financial Times."

    It does not assert that the Financial Times "owns" Heriot-Watt University. Learning to quote accurately is a good habit for any academic.

    I could remark that if this is an example of your reading comprehension then whatever brings you to degreeinfo.com you sure are in need of some education. But to make that remark would, of course, be childish. So I won't.

    As education is the acquisition of humility (another statement I learned from school) I will leave you, humbly, to stew in your embarrassment....
     
  6. wannaJD

    wannaJD New Member

    I have the feeling, although I haven't done a search, that you randomly attack the innocent without warrant very often.

    I also have a feeling that if I do a search, that you are typically involved in ridiculous debates over nothing.

    I'm going to do a search now. I have a 99.9% chance of being correct, based on your random, unwarranted attack.

    Before you even posted, I admitted I was being harsh, if that is not enough, how's this vulgarity:

    Sit on it and spin, old man.
     
  7. wannaJD

    wannaJD New Member

    Ah, I see.

    According to this post:

    http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=58235#post58235


    You have taken on the task of defending Heriot-Watt at every turn, and I gather you have made the assumption that I am possibly out to slander the school.

    I am new here, and I had no idea there was an unstated debate regarding HW on this board.

    So...let us move on.

    I promise never to discuss the school (I have never gone there, don't know anyone there). Your part of the deal is to leave me alone.

    Thank you.
     
  8. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    wannaJD.....while we tend to err on the side of free speech in regards to vulgarity, personal attacks are prohibited by the TOS.

    Cool it down a bit, please?


    Bruce
     
  9. oxpecker

    oxpecker New Member

    You write defamatory (albeit imbecilic) slurs about Heriot-Watt, and then get in a huff when called on it?

    I believe you should apologize for this before “moving on.”
     
  10. Ike

    Ike New Member


    I concur.
     
  11. wannaJD

    wannaJD New Member

    I have spent years on forums, ever since I discovered the internet.

    I have learned that mob rule applies in every case, whether accusee is right or wrong.

    That said,

    "I'm sorry. "
     
  12. Tarbuza

    Tarbuza New Member

    Defend your points but not vuglarity

    wannaJD,

    I think you should say sorry for calling professor assholes. You should get into healthy debate but I think it is not fair to use vuglar word. You can defend your points with logic but not with vuglarity.
     
  13. wannaJD

    wannaJD New Member

    I forgot to add:

    "Heriot-Watt is a fine, upstanding institution with the finest professors and students."
     
  14. wannaJD

    wannaJD New Member

    Re: Defend your points but not vuglarity

    I promise never ever to say "asshole" again.
     
  15. Han

    Han New Member

    Since I have had the misfortune of ruffling feathers, I thought I might put my 2 cents in:

    In the link below, I was a bit frustrated by some on the board who decided to start to name call and make personal a posting, who are a part of this thread.

    http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7533

    Additionally, if you do a search on Steve Levicoff, you do not have to worry about vulgarity, racism, personal attacks - whether it be to people who are fat, ugly, of a certain ethnic backgrounds, etc, etc.

    Also, you might note on one particluar comment that was so out in left field, I posted why do the moderators not get involved, the response was they moderate a promotion of degree mills and those comments, but normally nothing else, due to free speech. I am not saying I agree, but I don't respond like I used to, there are comments here that normally would not make it in a social world.
     
  16. Denver

    Denver Member

    A while back I suggested a FAQ on this site. While there is a good selection of articles in the discussion area on U.S. schools, things get a bit vague when you go overseas. Since there is a lack of article based information in this area, there is a tendency for the same issues to be fought repeatedly and for the same people to be called upon to give the answers. If I had to repeatedly reply to the same questions, I probably would get a bit abrupt too.

    Since my dissertation is on the demand for part-time DBA programs in the EU, I sometime see posts that are not exactly what my research shows. However, unless it seems damaging to the school or to someone who is relying on the information I let it go.

    I would like to see more on EU schools, and schools that will be in the EU after the expansion, being that I feel that is the future of many distance education alternatives (when I finish my dissertation I will share it with everyone on the board). I also hope that we can get back to the days when board members (such in the old alt.distance) would stop by schools to check them out when they are overseas. (I checked on two schools for members on my last trip).

    I have had email conversations with at least two of the people in the above posts and found them to be very professional. I think what we are seeing is more due to the lack of information in an area, and the resulting frustration, than any personal attack.

    Denver
    DBA candidate
    ESC Grenoble
    Reader of Dr. Bear’s books since 1984.
     
  17. Professor Kennedy

    Professor Kennedy New Member

    WannaJD

    You have said you are 'sorry'. Fine. You have even praised professors and students at Heriot-Watt. OK (but the context suggests this is not sincere - but as you do not know any, it matters least).

    What you have not done, yet, is admit that Heriot-Watt University is not owned by the Financial Times.

    For why, I do not know. In this case, the accusee is 'wrong' not right. Your 'evidence' was misquoted from the article you suggested that I should read, which, as it happened you had misquoted (obviously not even checking before you misquoted it again). Quoting it back to you proved the accusor right and the accusee absolutely wrong.

    It is normal in scholarly debate that when a person is shown to be wrong in a statement that was made - in this case, vehemently - that the person who made it instantly withdraws it. I do care that these high standards do not slip.

    Frankly, I could care about an intemperate posting, or personal abuse and impolite use of language unbecoming on a forum dedicated to education. The world is made up of wide variations of personal integrity and I can live with people different to me. When wrong, I admit it; when shown to have been overly robust, especially with a beginner or student, I apologise (as I did to Kristie7 in her posting about Glasgow University).

    You may make your own decision, of course, but it is sad that you may very well represent the way the world of discourse is going. Maybe, Europe is getting too old. Maybe none of this will matter in the rest of the 21st century.

    I prefer to think that Scotland's contribution to the modern world from the 18th century Enlightenment has been for the good. Adhering to the standards set by the Scottish professors of the Enlightenment - in properiety above all - would not lessen the standing of those in this American century, starting with contributions on this board.
     
  18. alexn

    alexn New Member

    I wouldn't say that, Prof. Kennedy. Acrimonious threads like this are the exception, not the rule. I've been lurking here for a few months now, and I don't remember too many discussions where someone has overreacted in response to a correction made by another informed and vested participant.

    I suppose it happens sometimes though. I'm sure many of us are tempted to say things on an internet board that we otherwise would not in person.
     
  19. BobC

    BobC New Member

    I don't know what's worse, him calling you an asshole or you saying he's what's wrong with the world. There's alot things wrong with the world I dont think WannaJD's comments or attitudes make the top million.
     
  20. wannaJD

    wannaJD New Member


    Thank you for that link. It was quite hilarious, and affirms my reaction.

    I do not know why I allowed Prof. Kennedy to tick me off enough to write what I did, but as soon as I read his first post in this thread, I knew I was a new victim of an old habit.

    I might add, to you and the other board members here who have been so welcoming, that I apologize wholeheartedly and sincerely. I hope that I have not permanently ruined any positive impression.

    I won't and don't tolerate attitudes toward me like the one above, and I'd rather have an honest brawl in the street over something substantial (not that I actually do such things) than argue over trivial semantics, especially since my initial intention was benign and innocent.

    Note that I equate the banter above with the behavior of a hoodlum, albeit a highly educated hoodlum. (No, I'm not calling you a hoodlum, Prof Kennedy.)

    I don't think I deserved the verbal lambasting I got, but I should not have reacted so immediately and negatively. I forget to take the high road and be the "bigger" person on occasion.

    Again, my apologies.
     
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