legit JD route using distance learning

Hello. I've been reading and searching threads about DL JD programs. I've been to all the California school web sites, and I am intrigued.

A little bit about me:

I am a fan of distance learning. I went to Northwestern University and I ran out of money and patience in 90-91 so I joined the Navy and completed my degree while enlisted in the "Bush I" recession. The economy was good by the time I completed the degree (BA Psychology) via State University of New York/Regents (now Excelsior), and I eventually wound my way to doing internet programming. I am really good at it, and blessed to be employed, now that IT jobs are soooo scarce. The writing is on the wall, and post 40 (I'm 35 and cynical), IT gets harder to stay in even if you aspire to management. Age discrimination is a real issue in my field.

I am taking grad courses here and there to find a new career and I've found I like taxes and accounting. I think in 5-10 years I would like to set up an estate planning practice (after all, what WILL the rich do with all the money they are stealing from the middle class?).

Now that there is a Bush II recession, my money is scarce, and I do not have the patience for the pomp and circumstance of the ABA accredited schools. I learned after my experience at Northwestern University, a very expensive and high prestige school in Illinois, that your education is primarily YOUR responsibility. No amount of tenured profs or school chums with pedigrees is going to help you if you can't learn on your own.



The meat of my inquiry:

Anyway, I like the idea of learning the law for my future accounting/tax practice, and I may even move to California again someday (I spent a couple years in San Francisco).

However, I don't want to close my options. One day when I finally get time and finances, I thought going through the DL JD program and passing the California bar would qualify me to enter an ABA accredited school so I can take the bar in other states.

Perhaps DL JD's are the way to paying for one or two, instead of four years of law school?




The bottom line:


1. Going to William H Taft or SCUPS could cost me $8000, plus say, $18000 * 2 for 2 years of ABA law school, totaling $44,000,
vs.

2.$72,000 for all ABA (there are no cheap law schools in Chicago).

3. Choice 1 allows me to study up 4 years so I can compete. DL JD might make ABA Law easier?

Is this a poor strategy? Am I kidding myself? I don't necessarily want to practice law, but I don't want to FOREVER SHUT THE DOOR, DOOMED TO THE MISERY OF NOT BEING ABLE TO BE A LAWYER in my state of choice, heaven forbid! ')


Thanks in advance,
wannaJD

 

I've looked at the transfer information for several Chicago area law schools, and NONE of them accept more than one year of credit! Most of them explicitly state that transfer credit must be from an ABA accredited law school.

What is this? A conspiracy? Who does the ABA think they are? What the?

The law is the great equalizer in America. I don't understand the wisdom of closing off opportunities to those who wish to advance.
I can't justify the cost of an ABA law school. Coupled with my undergrad and master's level education costs, I would NEVER recoup the money in my entire career.

I think I shall move back to California. This is ridiculous. I should never have left there. Some of the best legal minds were self-taught. It is becoming more and more clear to me how the systems in this country manipulate themselves into monopolistic power.

I challenge a JD to justify these limitations on sitting for bar examinations.

 

Furthermore (yes, I am ranting)...

... I would like to complete my JD via DL just so I can attack the ABA in the future on legal grounds.

I am the beneficiary of a great education due to the distance learning "movement".

Please list any links to groups that actively lobby for and support the purpose and goals of distance learning students.

Thank you. I'm outraged.

 

I suspect that the ABA may know just a bit about what is legal. I hear that a couple judges may even have indirect membership.

 

My significant other worked for the ABA for 8 years. She tells me they are an elitist, pompous bunch considering their level of backwardness.

Usage of the law to exclude is one thing. Sometimes it is a necessary evil.

It is quite another to set up a bar with a test, and then not allow those to take that test because of arbitrary monopolistic policies.

 

Highly unreasonable of them to set education standards.

 

Acceptance of unaccredited law degrees by state. Things can change so look before you leap.


http://www.sjcl.edu/additionalreq.html

 

DL Law Schools

Hi wannaJD,

Welcome to the world of DL law schools...
Do you know students of unaccredited law schools need to pass the CA baby bar before continuing with second year of study?
I studied a year with Taft U and got 67% on the exam.
I took the exam only once and never tried it again.
For your info, the passing rate is around 20%.
During the past few years, there were various legislatures trying to waive the requirement. However, they were all vetoed by the CA governors. They said the exam's in place to protect the consumers. However, I think they are just trying to monopolize the market.

sshuang

 

Up until about 12 years ago, anyone could be a judge in my district. No law degree was required. They heard civil cases, as well as misdemeanor and felony cases.

Then someone got the idea that a judge should be a lawyer. So the lawyers drafted up the legislation and it became law. Now all candidates for the office of judge must be certified lawyers.

Ah yes, progress...

 

Thanks for the list.

Of those on the list that would accept non-ABA/DL education, I would only want to live in Chicago, California, New York (maybe) and Florida.

And Texas can kiss my you know where! Just kidding. I only despise one famous Texan in particular.

 

Re: DL Law Schools

Yes. I've spent HOURS in the past week researching this topic. The length of time or hoops to jump through isn't my biggest concern...although knowing I have to pass or die after the first year is great incentive (or disincentive) for some to ditch this option.

I'm a very good test taker, so I'm not too worried about it. I might not pass the first time, but I might the second. I understand you have 18 months or 3 tries, correct?

I see that the pass rate varies. Some schools have a higher rate than others. The low pass rate is a big motivator for me. I like a challenge.

I come from the computer science/IT world, where merit is worth more than hoop jumping. This is interesting in light of the fact that the IT world also discriminates based on age.

So the reality is that now I have to change my "merit-based"career to a "hoop-jumping" career where age is more valued. Seems like the "hoop-jumpers" still have careers because they have been able to limit the competition. So here I am, trying to out-do the system. Sigh.

 

See...it pays to be a lawyer. See something you don't like, legit or not, you can act to change it using the law.

This is a perfect example of how power and privilege operate in America.

 

No elected judges here, just political hacks and bagmen, lawyers all.

My wife's uncle, many years ago, was a provincial court judge in Manitoba without being a lawyer. He could do warrants, remands, take guilty pleas and hand out sentences but could not hold trials.

I like the US system of electing judges, police chiefs and district attorneys. Each community gets the justice system the voters want.

Here judges hearing serious assault, rape, homicide etc. cases are appointed in Ottawa, 2-3,000 miles away. Judges hearing less serious cases are appointed provincially.

 

Sorry to interrupt your rant.
Jack

 

Yes, but America purports to be the example for the world. I hardly believe we qualify.

 

BOY! And to think I thought I hated the ABA! Compared to WannaJD I'm practically a member!

Keep in mind, WannaJD, that if you complete a California correspondence JD and manage to pass the Bar and practice there a few years, there are many states that WILL allow you to take the Bar, including, for instance, my state of New Mexico.

ABA accredited JDs ARE too expensive at private schools. They average about $75,000 total for tuition alone. Of course, it's not the ABA that gets this money, it's the SCHOOL.

State schools are MUCH cheaper but they tend to be full time day programs, so you have to count the lost income for three years as well, no small item. Plus, you have to get INTO a state school and the competition is fierce simply because they ARE so much cheaper. For example, the University of New Mexico gets about $15,000 total tuition for their program, $5k per year for three years. But, it's a full time day program, so how much income does the student forgo?

In your position, I'd probably look for a part-time, night law school, state if you can find it. Failing that, I ask myself whether I REALLY want to be a lawyer.

Nosborne, JD

 

Originally posted by wannaJD
I've looked at the transfer information for several Chicago area law schools, and NONE of them accept more than one year of credit! Most of them explicitly state that transfer credit must be from an ABA accredited law school.

I believe that's the norm for ABA accredited law schools =everywhere= (not just those in Chicago).

The law is the great equalizer in America. I don't understand the wisdom of closing off opportunities to those who wish to advance. I can't justify the cost of an ABA law school. Coupled with my undergrad and master's level education costs, I would NEVER recoup the money in my entire career.


Well, yeah, the law schools in Chicago are expensive. What do you expect? They are all =private=, ABA accredited schools. On the other hand, I know =tons= of lawyers who managed a full-time career while they attended the likes of JMLS, Kent, DePaul part-time. I doubt any of them were substantially much better situated (financially) than you are today.

I know DeKalb is kind of a long haul from the city but, as an example, the tuition at NIU Law is under $7k per year for residents. Tuition at UIUC Law is around $11k per year and around $7k per year at SIU. So, in reality, the problem seems to be that there are no public law schools in Chicago.

I challenge a JD to justify these limitations on sitting for bar examinations.

Sorry, but I'm far too busy figuring out how to justify the limitation Kristie (another DegreeInfo member) is facing. For some (unknown and ungodly) reason, the powers that be in her area won't accept a Ph.D. from a NON-AACSB school for the purposes of securing a faculty position. It appears that a Ph.D. in business from an RA school is not good enough...........and you're complaining about ABA accreditation.

 

Noting your interest in establishing a lucrative tax and/or estate planning practice, I wonder if you are overlooking other possibilities in that field besides becoming a lawyer.

For example, accountants and financial planners also work in that field, and the educational/licensing requirements can be much less than going the law school route. The savings in opportunity cost and time could be considerable.

Just a thought in case you had not already entertained this notion.

Regards,

Michael Lloyd
Mill Creek, Washington USA

 

Thank you for the advice.

I've been advised by a tax professional/career advisor that in order to hang out my own shingle, I should get the CPA, EA, and the JD would be a nice-to-have. Considering that jobs are being eroded at a pace never before seen, I have a feeling that in 4 years, a JD might be required. Because the CPA is easier to get and the JD takes a full 4 years, I thought I should get started or at least explore this before I get too much older.

Plus, I'm mad curious about the law.

Or maybe I'm going about this all wrong, all these credentials!

I just wish I had known how far my current career would tank! Now I have to turn my life on a dime or risk losing everything I've built. I know of many who didn't plan and they are 40-somethings now with no retirement, no job, and no prospects for building their own business.

 

You mentioned New York so could go there and attend a CUNY school like Brooklyn College. You'll have the joy of being surrounded by people who make careers of despising the USA, the rich, apple pie, etc.