Doctrorate - AACSB and more - problems

OK - I met with the new dean at CSU at Sacramento - the following is NOT MY OPINION, but what I was told about full time employment, I am trying to find any solutions.

1) AACSB is required - luckily I had information on Henley's Doctorate program - but there was more.

2) The ratio of Doctorate professors is another determination of applicants. This dean had not heard of Henley, so we went to the website, and found 5 professors in Marketing. 1 had a doctorate, 2 had doctorates from Henley, and 2 had masters. So basically he said 20% had doctorates.

He gave the example that he graduated from U of Kentucky - there was 4 doctorate students and 12 professors with doctorates.

He said he was required to take my application if I applied with a doctorate from Henley, but would not make it past the research committee - revolving file .

He offered up USC, who has opened a campus in Sacramento, but they have already closed their doctorate programs - things must not be going well.

He also said Berkley (past deadline and very difficult to get accepted - ranked in the top 5 in the country), but any suggestions to this, please let me know. I guess it is good to know now, before I was applying for the program, but I am stuck again.

Any guidence would be appreciated. Oh - and for those who will reply with "he doesn't know what he is talking about" or "what a joke" or "no way", please be assured, this is what I was told, and right or wrong, I need to work within these constraints, since I want to teach and stay in the area. help!!

 

Kristie - welcome to the reality of the academic world. DL doctorates simply won't do for many state schools. Further, their acceptability is hit and miss at private schools. Such schools typically insist that potential faculty earn a doctorate the old fashion way - by studying full-time with close faculty interactions. DL is simply inadequate in their minds. And they may have some points to make about the differences in DL versus traditional programs.

We may not like it - but that's the way it is.

Actually, be thankful the dean was as frank as he was. It would be a shame to earn a DL degree - and then find out that the institution you wanted to teach at wouldn't seriously consider you.

If you really want to teach with a DL doctorate, you need to set your sites on a different place to teach. There are some 1200 schools in the U.S. with business programs. 350 or so are AACSB and, for the most part, are off limits to DL folks. Consider the other 850 or so. Start by teaching adjunct to see if you like it - and the school likes you.

Regards - Andy

 

Sorry Andy, I forgot to say why - my employer will also only reimburse for AACSB. I think I might look into financial aide to open my options, but that was the other factor.

Also, I am very grateful with the dean, he was very frank, and gave other options, seems like a great Dean to work for.

 

Lets get the facts straight!

I would not describe doing a doctorate part-time as 'distance-learning'! It is a part-time doctorate. The Henley DBA requires extensive residential sessions at Henleywhere candidates undertake seminars, hear lectures from professors, undertake projects, etc, etc. In their own time, away from the College, candidates read, undertake library research work, write assignments and eventually go on to the thesis (dissertation) which is supervised by a Henley faculty supervisor. Not all Henley faculty are full-time. Some are 'associates' - myself included! I've been involved with the Henley DBA as a full-time (and now associate of Henley and hold 'recognized teacher' status of Brunel abale to supervise and etach on master's degree and doctoral programmes and examine the same) faculty member for six years so I do know something about the place!

The degree (DBA) is actually awarded by Brunel University! Brunel is a relatively modern but excellent institution.

There are numerous North American candidates taking the programme and candidates get to mix with folks from all over the world when they take their residential sessions at Henley.

Over 75 per cent of all Henley DBA graduates are involved in higher education, in some form or other, 12 months after graduating!

The key to getting into academia, as I have posted here endlessly before, is publication, publication and publication! You have the opportunity during the period of the DBA programme of publishing with Henley faculty and this adds status!

The fact that the Dean of the institution you went to hasn't hard of Henley is his/her problem not yours! Enlighten him/her. Henley is the oldest management college in Europe - not just the UK! It has a very good reputation. Get the Dean on a learning curve!

If you haven't visited Henley yet then you are in for a treat! It is set alongside the River Thames in a wonderful mansion (Georgian I think)! The staff are genetally extremely kind and helpful and the residential accommodation and food are exceptional for an academic institution. The programme isn't cheap and I hear tuition may rise this year or next but if you get accepted now you may be able to get the tuition flagged.

Hope this helps.

'telfax'

 

Kristie:

Shoot, every time you turn around something is getting in your way. First of all, are you sure this is what you want to do with your life. You may have posted your experience in the past and I may not remember, but are you sure you want to teach and research for the rest of your life? If it is, then full steam ahead, lets find you a way in the system.

1. You seem to want to teach at the University level, but what is the requirement at the Community College level? Do they have the same standards as the Universities in CA? This may not be where you want to be, but it may offer you experience and as Telfax stated, you could research and produce publications while you are there. I have heard the jump from Comm. Coll. to the University is hard but I am sure it has been done and who knows you may like the Comm. Coll. atmosphere.

2. Have you thought of any other areas in a University setting that you may want to work? Admissions, Registrar, Continuing Education divisions, etc. There are a number of jobs one can hold without being a member of the faculty. Once your in and make an impression, you can network and start teaching part time and then once you have proven yourself, move into a full time position. This may be the long way around but it may be a "back door" approach that you can use.

3. Have you ever thought about leaving CA? I know this may not be practical but it may be required in order to accomplish your goal.

4. Once you have experience on some level, you may be able to teach on-line classes for colleges and universities outside of CA while you live there.

I know I may not have been helpful but I think all of us are trying to break through acedemia's preception of DL. Some schools are a lot more open to the idea then others but you always have to put your geographics into the equation. Good luck and continue to keep us informed of your progress.

Duff

 

Doctorate, teaching, etc...

Yes, somebody here posted... you might be pleasantly surprised at community college teaching. If you like to teach, you will LOVE it. Far less nonsense than at a university. FAR less. I know; I teach fulltime at a community college (part of the Maricopa family). Now, it is HARD to get fulltime at Maricopa simply because the reputation is so high and the pay is good. In fact, I've had university faculty come to me asking how they can get in! Seems we pay better than the universities in some disciplines. Ha ha ha.... but there is tremendous arrogance from university types against the community colleges... which I find a hoot. Now if you are young, chances of landing a fulltime community college slot are lower; I would say teach parttime and try on a career... then apply again when older. You will appreciate it much more! I became a fulltime academic for the first time at age 45! Talk about a second childhood! Good luck... and sometimes a doctorate isn't always the best move. I have three grad degrees; none of them doctorates.

 

1. I have posted the community college debate here before, it is very difficult around here. It is more political than the the Universities. I have applied for part time positions, and one full time for the Fall. I called the hiring manager and she said she had over 250 applicants for the one job. I have spoken to some of my professors at the community college, and they say you HAVE to know somebody. I have even referenced them on my applications, but not enough juice. They only require a master's, so I am qualified as of Fall, but I am trying with both - I have probably send out 50 resumes, check the boards daily, met with administrators, professors, part ime professors for hints to get in, etc. Something is bound to pop soon.

2. I have not thought about that - what a good idea. I will look into this and see what is out there, then ask the Professors I know well if this would work (or ever has).

3. Just got married 2 years ago, made one promise to my husband - we stay in northern CA until both his parent pass. They are reaching there mid 70's, and we visit often, so we are going to be here a while. Since I have momentum, I wanted to keep trying.

4. I have experience at the company level, I give classes in IT and facilatate organizational behavior events. I went to several schools National for one, and they require you to have your degree for two years before you can become a teacher.

Thanks for all the infomation and time, I really appreciate it - I will keep trying.

Also, I have done a great deal of research on Henley and echo everything that Telefax said, and eveything I have seen I have really liked - response, ciriculm etc. I can take the time off to do the seminars and on-capus residency, so I may go that route anyway. Not sure.

 

Kristie:

I am glad you like option two and it can work. Well, I don't know if it will work in CA but in NC it can work. I worked in industry and had my sights set on college administration. After almost a year of applying to every possible job I could, I landed a position as an Occupational Coordinator with a community college. I actually direct programs and hire part-time instructors for a number of classes. (real estate, insurance, construction trades, motorcycle safety, etc. etc.)

I have only been there a few months and started talking to our night director who asked me if I would be interested in teaching nights or weekends. I really did not even have to market myself that much. Since I already worked for the school and I had a Masters, he seemed to be pleased. Of course working hard and having a good reputation with my Dean didn't hurt. My goal is not to become full time faculty but to gain as much experience as a can to move into a Dean's position at some point. So it can work if you have the right drive and attitude.

Duff

 

Kristie,

I don't doubt that your information on CSU Sacramento is correct. Growing up in Southern California, I, as well as many of my friends, attended CSUs as traditional students (Long Beach, Dominguez Hills, and Fullerton). Their policies were confused at best. I find it typical that they would look down on a DL doctorate, while having professors on staff from every foreign university you could imagine, some with very limited English verbal skills. This is not to say I don't respect foreign universities, and some of the foreign professors were very good. I am just questioning their knee-jerk reaction. If they can certify schools in India, Ukrain, and Germany as equivilant to U.S. schools, why can't they evaluate your program?

Because, they are very unbending in their approach to education. Which is why most students I know went on to complete (or are in the process of completing) their degrees outside of the CSU system.

By the way, this is not a comment on the University of California system, of which I have no experience.