Dissertation Advice Now , PLEASE

Just got a note from my Unizul Super re a change in method. I submitted the first chapter and it was approved. I submitted the second. No bad remarks on second chapter except I didn't include accents on the Greek (typist could not). My understanding was that this would be the strategy...the Super approving only one chapter at a time. It seemed the safer way. But today's note encourages me to go ahead and finish the whole thesis then submit it all at one time, three bound copies, and one loose. But doesn't this create an element of danger? Advice appreciated! Please!

 

Try to get some critical review before you get fed to the wolves. If your supervisor won't do it, make sure you find a few other smart people.

To invest 2 or 3 years and have a one time shot at success is a little too risky.

 

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Thanks. Exactly my worry. The Super actually said I could hire an "editor." He said this was "not illegal in Africa." I'm thinking of contacting a Western Seminary prof to edit and advice me on my logic etc

 

This is terrible. I have never heard of a dissertation advisor avoiding his/her responsibilities in this manner. My advice would be to get out now, before you get a degree that may embarrass you in future.

 

Ignore the pecker. Things will work out. I am sure your supervisor isn't abdicating all responsibility.

 

Could it also possibly be (heaven forbid) that he/she thought your first two chapters were going so well that he/she felt you could do the rest as one swell fope?

 

If the supervisor had been impressed with the first two chapters, it might be OK for him/her to suggest that Bill submit a draft of the entire dissertation. But this is not what he/she has done. He/she has suggested that Bill submitted the bound final version of the dissertation! Having the dissertation bound is the last step -- usually after everybody on the committee or examining board has approved the contents.

I think this situation is disgraceful. If this is accepted practice, then Unizul is no better than a degree mill.

 

Wouldn't the most straightforward approach be to talk to the dissertation advisor? Tell him about your concerns and ask your questions. Let the advisor clarify what he's suggesting, why he's suggesting it, and what the situation is.

There's a suggestion in this story that communication between the student and his advisor might have been inadaquate. Now this news seems to indicate that it is about to be reduced even further, and that's grounds for concern.

The "editor" thing might be worrisome too, depending on what is being suggested and on what the editor actually does.

I'm curious about what this UNIZUL program actually provides to its students. Is it simply an opportunity to submit a finished dissertation that a student writes as a lone-ranger with minimal contact with the school? That's one of the things that worries me about the "research doctorate" model that Degreeinfo loves so much.

Stuff like required participation in seminars at least forces students and faculty to take notice of one another and to interact. So does the practice of students working dissertation proposals out in collaboration with their professors, subsequent to admission. That allows students to be integrated into ongoing collaborative research activities that create opportunities for interaction and networking.

 

Bill,

I would think that the advisor has suggested you submit a final draft of the thesis--all at once. To submit the final product (i.e., 3 bound copies, 1 loose copy) before it is examined and approved as a complete unit seems illogical, and I too would be highly suspect of such a procedure. Contact UZ again and confirm the specifics, it may be a misunderstanding of what is being asked for.

 

The research doctorate has been the working model in the UK, SA and Australia for many moons now, and they aren't too worried about it. My doctoral advisor at Erskine completed his Th.D. at the University of Basil (mid-80's), actually living there during the several years it took to complete the degree. He told me that he attended very few classes, and those he attended were merely a formality. Most of his program was designed as personal research, writing and meetings with his doctoral committee. Whether the meetings were conducted via conference call, face-to-face, in the same room, e-mail, drinking coffee together, fax, telephone, etc................, seemed to be of little importance. The main criterion was that the level of productive communication remained intact.

 

Wrong!

Irrespective as to subject/discipline and irrespective as to how bright the student may be, this is simply not the way for a supervisor to proceed! However good the first chapters are, and how ever goof the erst may be, the supervisor has the task of making sure that the thesis/dissertation 'tells the story' in a meaningful and sequential way and that the student has adhered to the structure one expects to see in a thesis.

Does the University not have a set of rules by which the supervisor must supervise the student? Everywhere I've taught I've had to keep a diary of my contact with each doctoral student and submit reports, keep dates and times qwhen Is aw thw student and/or received work and sent it back.

Uhmm!!!!

'telfax'

 

"how ever goof the erst may be"

Sies! I don't think that's a very nice thing to say about either Bill or his promoter.

 

Thankyou

I want you each to know that I am taking your advice seriously. I am a little worried and don't know what to think. I had emailed a couple of weeks ago my Super saying that I hoped to finish in time for my 65th birthday in June of *05.*

He wrote back that if I want my thesis examined before that birthday then I should consider the following: get it all typed, the whole thesis ; obtain the services of an editor ; send him three bound copies, but not expensively bound as two are for the external readers from other universities. Also send to him a loose leaf copy for the library "should there be any corrections." He asks, "How does this grab you?" He says "Please submit by November." "God bless you."

Let me say that I think the Super and I have a good relationship. I do work fairly independently but always try to follow his advice and always consult him before any major change. I do know Theology at Unizul has a new Dean. Song is replaced by Loubser. It's hard for me to conceive of my Super not doing his duty. So I am wondering if he thought that I meant summer of *04*? Perhaps he thought I was in a rush.But even then, why would he countenance another methodology just to suit me? I will recontact him immediately just as soon as I figure out what to say

I do not want to screw this up. I much enjoy the research and writing on my problem.
Thanks again,

 

Vladica: I hope it wasn't a waste of thyme at the University of Basil.

 

In your original post you stated that your advisor has "encouraged" you to submit the three bound copies, etc, etc.
Perhaps you would only have to say that you'd feel more comfortable submitting the chapters one-by-one as you have been doing. You didn't make it sound like he was insisting after all.
Jack

 

Bill

I don't have any up front advice on this one, I'm still a newbie. But I wish you the best on this. Make sure you get the interaction you deserve.

Shalom,

Chris

 

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Jack

No, he did not insist. The context seems to have been my sentimental comment that I'd like to be done before my 65th birthday in June of 05. His response seems an accomodation...a very unexpected one.

I'm planning to write him back tonight. I'm first going to ask him if in fact that is what he actually suggested -submitting it when done, not a chapter at a time. I actually like the idea under certain conditions: (1) Would he would please, were we to go this route, preview and comment on a summary of each chapter before I write it. (2) I'd also wish to know if I would be given the opportunity to correct any perceived errors in the completed product. that is , must "completed"="final." I have a suspicion that it is not! (3) Also, I'd like to know the function and latitude of the proposed "editor." Here's the thing, believe me : I am very confident about my own ideas and capabilities on the subject of my thesis. But still I would value bouncing my ideas off , say, one of my Western profs up the road 45 miles. Have not yet. I wonder if that is "kosher"? I wonder if such could be my editor?

 

Good luck Bill. I would check into the issue with your super. If I remember correctly your super is partially retired and you posted that you irritated him in the beginning. You also said outside University reviewers do the final review & approval of your dissertation. What I would want to avoid is a case where the super felt he may be pressured by you informing him you wanted to be done by a certain date and said go ahead and just submit the bound dissertation when you complete the rest of the chapters. You then submit it to the outside university reviewers who give it thumbs down or require revisions (and he may or may not particularly care).

I do not know that any of that is the case and I assume based on things you post here that you are probably doing quality work. I would just make sure you are not being set up.

He may just be completely confident based on the agreed upon methodology and your work that you will do perfectly well with the rest of it.

North

 

I've contacted the Super for more clarification. Soon as I know something more I'll share it.

I appreciate Oxpecker you taking the time to respond. I cannot believe that the Super has anything but my best interest at heart. As for Unizul being a "degree mill" I do not see signs of that. First, entrance into the program required accredited degrees which were carefully examined by the University faculty senate. Second thus far it is obvious to me that the Super spends a great deal of time evaluating submissions. Third, requiring three years of effort "at" Unizul after my already completing grad degrees requiring four years of effort , 126 grad units with thesis, suggests that UZ doesn't give degrees away...at least to me. Fourth, for the thesis to pass it must be examined as well by two external examiners--ie by profs from other Universities. I'm sure differences may exist between GAAP or accredited schools, and I don't know all of these variances, but I see no signs of millish behavior from UZ.

Bill D. I think you make a good point about the need for a solid relationship between student and super. In the USA the ThM degree is, according to Rob Wiggins of Western Seminary, 1/2 the way to a PhD. Rob may have in part meant "readiness" for doc work. Unizul requires that before one is accepted, he/she must have experience in writing a thesis. The ThM program includes a thesis. I wonder if someone with a four year masters might not need less direction than one with a one year masters? There are US schools offering theology docs which require significantly less (but still residence) from one with a US ThM than from one with only a MDiv or MA. When added to my prideful disposition my ThM experience tends to make me feel fairly independent even overly self confident, yet this relationship with the super, as you rightly say, should be one of at least some dependence and certainly much communication. Thanks for that insight and for being willing to share your common sense with me.

Mike, I do think I have a very good grasp of my topic. I don't think that many could out talk me on it within the self imposed limitations of evangelical doctrine and the historical-grammatical hermeneutic of which partly my method of approach consists. It is mostly the grammar and spelling (recall SA follows a different English) that the super quibbles about and not the ideation and logic of my work. The Super knows the American Seminary MDiv/ThM combo effects as he has been through it himself. He also specializes in the general area of my research and has published in that area.

North, I believe the super and I are now on good terms. It is true that we had a small disagreement on Karl Barth. But I agreed to restrict my use of nonevangelicals by narrowing my topic. This actually saves me some work. I do not need now to understand everything that anyone ever said on the Trinity!! My area was too wide before. So he did me a favor by suggesting I limit my discussion.

Telfax, I respect your experience. I just do not think the Dean of the department and the faculty senate at UZ and the representatives of the two other universities, and my super's own integrity would allow him to do anything improper. My super has been around for some time.

Mike , Dennis, Chris, Russell, Jack, (Dave and the Unk privately), Thanks for the pep talks, advice, and good wishes. Nice to have you and the others care enough to share.

I will clarify as soon as I learn more.

 

Bill, what's the scoop with Arthur Song? Retiring? New job? Tossed into the sea?