Golden State Theological Seminary PLEASE HELP

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by pallen, Feb 20, 2003.

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  1. pallen

    pallen New Member

    I WAS considering Golden State Theological Seminary. There was nothing about it in either the Bear or Walston guide. I found various things about it really strange, however:
    1. The 'application' and many other things are remarkably similar to Amercian Bible College and Seminary. It appears that a lot of their documentation was stolen (or given) to them by ABCS, because humourously enough, in the Golden State student guide, there's even a place that should say GSTS, but still says ABCS!
    2. Many of their professors have Doctorates from an accredited seminary, but it happens to be ABCS!
    3. I would like some info if this is common among distance learning programs - When I received their 'study guide' (syllabus/course manual) for the Mark class, the entire class consists of answering MANY inane questions (stuff like 'Where did Jesus go in verse 6?'). There are also a lot of essays to write. The most absurd assignment was 'Search the internet for sites that mention the book of mark, pick four and write a couple paragraphs each about why others should visit each site.' I have no objection to writing a lot, but there doesn't seem to be ANY learning provided by this class. Nothing is really getting taught, you're merely reading the bible, filling in blanks and writing essays - there is nothing at all taught in the course manual, only questions.

    The reason I'm looking into a distance seminary degree is strictly for self fullfilment - I have no plans to enter the ministry. I was considering GSTS because it is staggeringly cheap (125 per class, not unit), but it sure seams there is a good reason for this. I do not need a degree from an accreddited school - I do however seek a degree because it motivates me more to have a quantitive goal to achieve.

    I have read the Bear and Walston guide, but if anyone has ANY suggestions about a GOOD seminary with no residency requirements, and hopefully inexpensive ($150/unit or less prefereably), acreddited or not, please let me know.

    Thanks

    Patrick Allen
    [email protected]
     
  2. kevingaily

    kevingaily New Member

    I have read the Bear and Walston guide, but if anyone has ANY suggestions about a GOOD seminary with no residency requirements, and hopefully inexpensive ($150/unit or less prefereably), acreddited or not, please let me know.

    Hi Pallen:)

    I can't address the first issue concerning the college you were looking into, but I have a college that I'm thinking about going to that is very inexpensive, with good classes and has a degree program. You can get their bachelors and masters in Theology. This school was recomended to me by others on this site. It is in South Africa. There is no residency required, and it is accredited by their government/department of Education. You can get classes by text or on cd-rom. The courses are around $10 each!!!
    This doesn't include books plus the registration fee. The people have been very helpful to me and my questions at the school. Anyway, I hope this helps. If you look through the certificate of Theology thread in this forum you will see the discussion that took place concerning this school. God bless!
    www.sats.edu.za
     
  3. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2003
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The courses at SATS are indeed affordable but not quite that cheap. Their web site has a per credit charge BUT their credit system is different (more credits to equal an undergraduate degree). A course averages around $90 (some less, some slightly more). That is still very affordable. Graduate degrees are also a real bargain.

    North
     
  5. BLD

    BLD New Member

    Pallen,
    GSST and ACCS used to have the same webmaster. At one time their websites were almost identical but have changed some over the last year or so. They also have used each other's staff in the past, but I do not know to what extent. I do know that the former president of ACCS was the speaker for GSST's graduation exercises last year. Before TRACS (ACCS's accreditor) became approved by CHEA, ACCS accepted the maximum transfer credit from GSST into all of their programs. That is why I completed the M.Div. there.

    I'm not sure what to tell you about the coursework. I'm not doubting what you say here, but my experience was much different. My average 3 credit course involved 4 20-25 page research papers, plus substantial essays, lots of reading, etc... It was much more extensive than my RA M.A. in New Testament.

    Your best bet will always be going with an accredited school, whether you think you need it right now or not. Also, from what I have seen of SATS's coursework it is actually much less extensive than what I saw at GSST.

    BLD
     
  6. pallen

    pallen New Member

    BLD,

    I received the courseware for the class on Mark (which they say is the first class everyone takes). It goes something like this:

    2 pages of introduction and an outline of the book

    1 page of questions directly from the intro, like "When was this book written"

    30 pages of questions directly from the bible, like "In chapter sixteen, what did they see when they entered the tomb."

    Mixed in these 30 pages are quite a few writing assignments as well as assignments based on the bible software they give you, such as "Open PowerBible, open three commentaries and summarize what they say about Jesus' ressurection."

    At the end, a term paper and an absurd internet assignment:

    "Students are to research the internet and locate a minimum of 15 websites which provide information about the Gospel of Mark. These websites must then be listed in alphabetical order. Write a minimum of two paragraphs for each site. Explain why you selected the site and why you would recommend the site to another person studying Mark."


    I'm just wondering, is this how ALL distance learning is, no actuall teaching of any sort, just read the Bible and write many essays? I was expecting maybe a transcript of a lecture or something. I admit the workload seems adequate (quite a bit of writing) but that's it.

    Please give me feedback. My goal is the most education (not based on degrees but on quality and quantity of learning) for the least money.

    Obviously, in my heart I'm more intrigued by the idea of being able to get a MDiv for $3750 instead of paying instead of the same for a Certificate elsewhere, or $11,250 for an MDiv from somewhere like Luther Rice (which seems to get a lot of ridicule on these boards, anyway).

    Thanks!

    :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
     
  7. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

    Barry Davis, BLD, is the one to comment on Golden State. But I would like to comment on DL learning at the graduate level in the two forms I've experienced it thus far (not counting Unizul):

    1) ACCS in the two Theology classes I've finished sends textbooks, requires additional reading and papers . This in my opinion assumes a degree of entry level knowledge(to connect and relate) skills and tools (to research) and the ability to be self directed.

    My next class at ACCS is the Gospel of John. But it does not seem to resemble what you describe for Mark's Gospel where assignments seem more in form with freshman college work. The text for John is Morris' in NICNT. It is 900 pages. An additional 700 pages of other reading is required. My Prof, or grader, has agreed to let me do one 50-60 page paper on the Johannine doctrine of the role subordination of the Son to the Father. The zest that I have for this task equals that I get when I begin to eat a huge primerib smothered in onions, mushrooms, and horseradish!!This paper is to bring to bear the entire Gospel on the issue of the functional subordination of the Son. It will be an exegetical study of perhaps 30-40 passages utilizing the original language and synthesizing into that data the two conflicting views as to whether that trinal relationship is eternal or temporal in order to determine which theory best fits with John's Christology. This paper is both the vehicle of and the evidence for my learning in this class. I expect to spend three months on it or about 240 hours. This is the sort of stuff in terms of content and strategy on which I thrive. Let me pick my study, let me set my course, and I'll explore and learn on my own. The function of the prof or grader is to be that to which I am responsible, but I wish to be self guided.

    2)In contrast, what I experienced while "at" Trinity Seminary in Indiana was very different. Here the coursework included cassette tapes that one would listen to and then respond to questions on those cassettes. Papers were also required and textbooks too. I've said a lot of unkind, but true I think, remarks about Trinity, but I still contend that one can learn by their program and that it does have substance. The cassettes guide and direct one through the study and provide much valuable information!

    P erhaps you would benefit from this second sort of study. Find a school that uses this format. If you wish, Get on Trinity's website. Get on their T Delta forum and ask what the students think about their classes. But don't tell them that Bill Grover sent you! I do not recommend TTS because they misrepresent their accreditation.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2003
  8. pallen

    pallen New Member

    Bill,

    Thanks for your input. That's exactly what I mean, either of those sound at least like there's something of substance. I am glad to find out there's more to distance learning than what I received from GSST.

    And, I can assure you, my freshman level BA classes were a lot more difficult than the class on mark from GSST. :D
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Basically, you are going to get what you pay for in terms of education. Yes, an accredited school like ACCS or LRS costs more but there is more utility. LRS has a number of well known grads (including Charles Stanley, John Ankerberg, and a whose who of Southern Baptists).

    If you have a undergrad degree in theology then you might want to try SATS for a MTh by research (consists of large dissertation). Less than your GSST MDiv.
    http://www.sats.edu.za

    Also, Liberty has a very affordable MDiv (140 per credit hour ??) and only some short residencies.

    http://www.liberty.edu

    It might help if we knew what you intended to do with the degree (i.e. chaplaincy, etc).

    North
     
  10. BLD

    BLD New Member

    Pallen,
    I agree with you that those course requirements are not only inadequate, they are mostly a waste of time. I never took the course on Mark from GSST so that's about all I can say.

    I do know that the courses I did take had much more substance than the one you received on Mark. Perhaps they would be willing to send you some other courses to review?

    BLD
     
  11. oxpecker

    oxpecker New Member

    I’m not a student of theology, but I wonder if this situation is as bad as some have implied? This course on Mark appears to be an introductory course -- perhaps something that one would take in the first year of an undergraduate program. But people have contrasted its requirements with those of courses in an MDiv program. People in an MDiv program would presumably already know the basic content of Mark forwards and backwards.

    Many DL courses are structured around a set of questions -- some intended as a sort of “quiz” to keep people on track with the basic course content and others (the “essays”) to encourage people to think about and synthesize the material. Erstwhile degreeinfo poster Leslie (aka Sunny) contributed some excellent posts about the need to encourage students to take responsibility for their own learning, rather than spoon-feeding them material. I don’t agree that “nothing is being taught” in a course that is “only questions.” I recently took a course on online teaching at the state university for which I work as an occasional adjunct. The focus on questions rather than course material was very strong. The basic idea is that people can be directed to books, articles, and even websites for information -- but the instructor can really add value by posing questions that get students to challenge/contrast/synthesize the material, and by providing guidance and feedback in this effort.
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Not necessarily! MDiv programs admit students with numerous types of undergrad degrees. For example, one may be admitted to a MDiv program with a bachelor's degree in business administration, horticulture or communications. Many MDiv students have absolutely no background in religion/theology/Bible, so the courses, especially at the first year level, are designed to acclimate the student with this discipline.
     
  13. pallen

    pallen New Member

    Oxpecker,

    I see your point, but I do not believe that is the case here. I mean, these questions do not make you think, they are litterally questions such as "What city did Jesus go to in verse 9," and "Who did Jesus meet in verse 20," things of that nature.

    I have recently spoken with Reuben from SATS and have decided on studying with them. I appreciate all the helpful posts in this board, without which I never would have found SATS.
     
  14. oxpecker

    oxpecker New Member

    Thanks -- I stand corrected. (I have never figured out all the Divinity/Theology etc degrees.)
     

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