This is the spelling on the new home page of Louisiana Baptist University. When you go through the site you'll also find that the grammar is horrendous. Louisiana Baptist University
Gosh! There are people on the faculty who have 4 or 5 doctorates! They must be VERY bright or the whole thing is a scam or perhaps the Lord provides...or perhaps the standards are not that high! Took me five years of part-time study/research and writing to get my (British) doctorate, albeit not in theology. Yet, theology remains one of the most difficult subjects in a major accredited (or equivalent) university. 'telfax'
An Oldie But Goodie . . . telfax notes that many faculty members have "four or five doctorates!" However, it should be noted that these include honorary doctoral titles, and that the allegedly earned titles are lrgely homegrown - listed under LBU's former name of Baptist Christian University. They have operated for many years under various names. I covered the three most comon ones in NIFI. in which the following profiles appeared (current as of the last edition in 1994): LOUISIANA BAPTIST THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY P.O. Box 503 Aurora, Missouri 65805 (417) 678-0644 A division of Baptist Christian Schools in Shreveport, Louisiana (see listing in this chapter), this degree mill's catalog states, "It is the Seminary's intention to pursue regional or professional accreditation. Customarily, a new school must operate for 5 years before applying for candidate status. The full accreditation process then takes 2 or 3 years of further evaluation." Yet the catalog cover indicates that the seminary has been around since 1961. (Of course, if they're speaking in terms of *dog* years, they should get around to applying for accreditation soon.) The seminary answers this charge by explaining that even though Baptist Christian Schools has been in existence since 1961, the seminary itself was established in 1989 (which makes them guilty of misrepresenting their founding date in their own catalog). Their parent institution, Baptist Christian Schools, claims accreditation from the unrecognized Accrediting Commission International. See also the listing for Louisiana Baptist University in this chapter, as well as the listing for the National Association of Marriage and Family Counselors in Chapter 11 for information on their alleged counseling certifications. Advertises or has advertised in The Sword of the Lord. LOUISIANA BAPTIST UNIVERSITY 2835 Hollywood, Suite 310 Shreveport, Louisiana 71108 (318) 635-5110 Under the umbrella name of Baptist Christian Schools, the university grants degrees through the doctorate level, as well as a phony certification in marriage and family counseling (see Chapter 11 under "National Association of Marriage and Family Counselors"). Claiming accreditation by the unrecognized Accrediting Commission International, the university is affiliated with the Louisiana Baptist Theological Seminary (also listed in this chapter). They have also been granted candidacy status by the Transnational Association of Christian Schools (TRACS; see discussion at the beginning of this chapter and in Chapter 3), which lists them as "Baptist Christian College." Formerly known as Baptist Christian University, the school is wholly owned by the Baptist Tabernacle of Shreveport. Advertises or has advertised in Pulpit Helps. NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MARRIAGE AND FAMILY COUNSELORS 3031 Hollywood Shreveport, Louisiana 71108 (318) 631-8875 Sponsored by Louisiana Baptist University (formerly known as Baptist Christian University), a degree mill listed in Chapter 12, this credential mill advertises, "Each member receives a beautiful Counselors Certificate imprinted with your name and suitable for framing. This certificate enables you to display your credential as a Certified Christian Counselor . . . No on [sic] would think of seeking medical advice from one who claimed to be a medical doctor and did not display his or her credentials. The Lord's work deserves ever more diligence. In a time where so much that we do is under increased scrutiny, this can give added credibility to your roll [sic] as a Christian Counselor." The requirements for membership include a B.A. degree in any field; therefore, no formal education in counseling is required. Also affiliated with Louisiana Baptist Theological Seminary, listed in Chapter 12. Their certification, which is worthless, should not to be confused with that of the American Association of Marriage and Family Therapy in Washington, DC, a legitimate agency recognized by the U.S. Department of Education and CORPA. By the way, to the credit of TRACS (for a change), their application for accreditation never went further. The fact that TRACS granted them candidacy status at one time was one of TRACS' bigger mistakes - and one that was corrected in their big house cleaning several years ago.
Dr. vs. "Dr." I find it interesting to note that, of 30 faculty and adminstration members listed as holding earned doctorates, only 8 have gained such degrees from accredited institutions. These institutions include Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Claremont Graduate School, UCLA, San Francisco Theological Seminary, and the University of South Africa. I honestly struggle to understand how individuals with highly credible earned doctorates can bear to co-exist as faculty members with those possessing doctoral credentials lacking such credibility. How can one, after devoting several years of sacrificial investment to the goal of completing a PhD program at Claremont or Southwestern Seminary, sit as an academic peer with a handful of "PhD" graduates of some rinky-dink Bible institute in Arkansas or the backwaters of Texas? I understand that some folks simply are rather desperate to be hired on to a faculty somewhere; yet, I can't help but feel that this sort of experience would be a bit disappointing and distasteful to the true PhD grad.
Of course, you can also find spelling mistakes on the Web pages of good universities. Google finds 121 instances of "intercession courses" (which I first saw on the Web Site Index of University of Massachusetts Boston). Sorry to disappoint you theologians, but they mean "intersession courses" every time.
What, no courses on intercessory prayer at UMass-Boston?! I guess I'll have to look elsewhere. Next I'm going to find out that the courses in Meditation being offered by the local university's school of business are actually focused upon Mediation. Where does one go for spiritual enrichment anymore!? I would have to agree that, from time to time, I've run across some rather glaring errors while surfing around the websites of various reputable institutions. This can be attributed, in part, to the reality that it generally isn't the high-powered, PhD-toting faculty member who designs the website; it is the techy "underling," who hasn't necessarily acquired his position by virtue of his attention to grammar and spelling (no offense to computer techs, of which my wife is one). If errors in spelling and grammar fail to be corrected over time, this can be thought to reflect negatively on a school (certainly faculty and administration drop by their own websites from time to time; they should notice such things and recommend corrections). However, initial errors on the part of web designers should not necessarily be judged a fair basis for assessing the calibre of an institution's academic atmosphere.
Couple years ago I considered Louisiana Baptist myself. I opted instead for Trinity of Indiana, then later came to my senses to the undesirability of that choice through this board. The drawing card for LBU was its connection to the Baptist Bible Fellowship- 4000+ churches. (Perhaps, Cory, the LBU profs with genuine docs belong to BBF and have the motivation of denominational ties to teach there). While I'm not in the BBF, I reasoned that if a denomination favored it, then , it must be OK. I guess it is 'OK' for the purposes connected to the BBF. This observation occasions the topic of the possible utility for some of some non accredited degrees. In Oregon, thought by many to be hard on unaccredited schools, one with a degree from the above mentioned Trinity actually could teach in a religious school or pastor and list that TTS degree. In the BBF one can be ordained with a degree from LBU. Barry, who began this post, transferred credit from an unaccredited MDiv into the ACCS DMin (hope I'm right on this Barry). I've taught school for 34 years with an unaccredited BA and entered the accredited MA and Cal Std Teaching Credential Program with that same unaccredited degree. So in some narrower contexts unaccredited schools do work! But that still leaves a couple of concerns. RA or even NA or GAAP degrees 'work' more consistently. Those good folks earning the LBU BA or MA likely will not be able to transfer into a more advanced accredited degree program ( I was very "lucky"). So why limit oneself to what might work? If one obtained a pastorate with the unaccredited MDiv from LBU isn't it conceivable that that one may wish to change to a denomination which requires an accredited MDiv.? Again, why limit oneself to narrow applications and restricted utility? Yes the catalogue attempts to explain that, "As primarily a religious institution LBU has not sought either regional or national accreditation by a secular accrediting agency." (p 10) . Ummm.., ok, well why not by TRACS or ATS , then? Maybe LBU needs not accreditation, but its graduates very well may need it! In my mind a second concern at least in terms of graduate study in Theology is the academic qualifications of the professors and administrators. I'm looking at the LBU 2000-2001 catalogue. There under 'Personnel', of the 19 profs listing docs from religious schools 15 of these listings have unaccredited doctorates. It would not seem impossible, but it would seem very unikely, that one who has not an accredited doc in theology ( I do not mean 'ministry') could teach theology at the level of proficiency provided by going through an accredited doctoral program. At least in Trinity the "profs", better termed "graders", have accredited docs. My two guys were from Dallas and Westminster. (once I fussed with the DTS guy over a 'B' on a paper ,and he said, "Hey a "B" is doc work too...I felt he should know. But if his PhD were from LBU, I might not trust his perception!). At LBU,the Dean of Biblical studies at LBU has two doctoral degrees. Neither is accredited! The dean of the seminary has two doctoral degrees. Neither is accredited! The director of Curriculum development has two doctoral degrees. Neither is accredited! The president of the school has two doctoral degrees. Neither is accredited. Of the 10 names listed under "Academic Administration", each with a doctorate, NOT ONE has an accredited doc! No wonder accreditation seems so unimportant to LBU! But here the point is, how does one know the rigor of an accredited doc ,and so teach, and so administrate if one has not himself first completed an accredited doc? This is like making people generals who have never gone to war! (As an aside, neither could I see reasearch done without recourse to the original languages but LBU does little of that as it is KJV only.)
Actually, ACCS insisted I have the M.Div. before entering the D.Min. program. They didn't transfer credits into the program. They were fine with the unaccredited M.Div. from Golden State as a prerequisite credential. Before TRACS received CHEA approval, my understanding is that ACCS did accept transfer credits from Golden State, but only for undergrad and Master's programs, not the doctorate. Of course, I already had two accredited Bachelor's in Bible and Theology and the M.A. in New Testament. The funny thing is, the Golden State courses were in many ways more challenging than the ACCS courses as well as the ones I took for my RA M.A. BLD
BLD wrote: > This is the spelling on the new home page of Louisiana > Baptist University. When you go through the site you'll also find > that the grammar is horrendous. > Louisiana Baptist University They've corrected the spelling.
LBU is one of six BBFI approved colleges/seminaries. Within this Independent Baptist fellowship, LBU degrees are well recognized/received. More than a few BBFI ministers have earned RA undergrad and grad degrees, then earned a doctorate (DMin or PhD) from LBU.
CLSeibel wrote: > I would have to agree that, from time to time, I've run > across some rather glaring errors while surfing around the > websites of various reputable institutions. How about on their official transcript request forms? http://www.frederick.edu/html/downloads/transcriptform.pdf asks for your "Maidan Name".
Re: Re: "experiencial" "cirriculum"?? It's nice to be read. It's a shame they don't post as well. Tom Nixon
Hi Barry, I think many of these sites have web masters who are not that educated in anything except web page building. The ACCS site has numerous grammatical errors, especially using "it's" for "its." At least it did the last time I visited that site. If you look at most Bible college and seminary sites you will find a myriad of grammatical errors. Take care,
Having just completed M.Div. studies at GSST I can attest the coursework is rigorous. It was just as rigorous, if not more so at times, than the CCHS (DETC) coursework in which I am currently enrolled (three courses left, yea!).
Hi Bill, Hope this finds you well. I came back, temporarily, because I have been pushing myself with the CCHS work so I can complete the M.S. degree by April or May and I needed a break. I am not going to get into the same type of fruitless discussions I have in the past about theology, beliefs, opinions, etc. It's not worth it to me at this point anymore. By rigorous I simply meant that each course I took had a text (s) and a syllabus. Neither information in the text (s) nor the syllabus were sufficient for the exams nor the research papers. A great deal of outside reading, studying, and research were required to successfully pass the course and meet the requirements for graduation. Yes, this is standard in most schools of theology but many others, especially the other unaccredited ones, do not require such rigor. My statement was basically a comparison among the unaccredited schools, not those accredited where such rigor is not only expected, but demanded. Comapred to CCHS, for instance, the course work, while not in theology, albeit it is a Master's program, GSST is more demanding.
=== Jimmy You should not participate in any discussion which is "fruitless" in your opinion and not , to you, "worth" it. So I will not anticipate a response. But for any other interested reader: If by "rigorous" is only meant that a course requires textbook (s) , paper (s) , and exam (s) sorts of assignments, as opposed to not requiring any assignments at all, then the degree of rigor such a course has would seem to depend on the demand those assignments make on the student. The degree of rigor is not proven just by the existence of books, papers, exams and whatnot in coursework ; it rather is evidenced by both the nature of these assignments and the by particulars of the required responses of the student to them. I simply asked for some particulars by which to evaluate that claim of GSST's rigor. Of course, were GSST's MDiv program rigorous in the manner of some other UA MDiv programs , then, one might expect to see GSST M Div grads in RA/ATS ThM or PhD programs. But as far as I know, this not happening. To me, this qualification on GSST's "rigor " 'is "worthwhile" to such a board as DI. To me it also is fruitful to massage the notion that quality grad studies in Theology and Bible can be the regular effect when none of the profs of any of those courses have themselves completed the rigor of a doc degree in Bible or Theology which is accredited or viewed as the equivalent of being accredited! This phenomenon were it true should be a mandate for those accreditors as AABC and TRACS which , I guess, on no good grounds, require the profs of schools they accredit to have accredited degrees to forsake that unsound standard! Further, if GSST can pull off this level of rigor in instruction in graduate Bible/Theology while employing no one qualified by accredited doc degrees in these disciplines to dispense such , then GSST has driven a stake through the heart of the idea that accredited degrees are better than degrees from unknown and unaccredited schools. RA/NA/GAAP...All is vanity!
