Dr. Bear Book Comments

I just received my book today!!!!!!

I have just begun (I don't have any of the old editions), so this looks to be a great resource. A couple of questions to Dr. Bear.

1. Have you thought about a searchable CD?

2. Since Steve Levicoff has made so many offensive (very cruel) comments and postings on this board, have you thought about how that would effect the book's reputation having him referenced in pages of the text?

I am excited to start, so I am off, but these were the first two things I thought of when I started in preliminary scanning.

 

Thanks for your comments, Kristie.

1. I think a searchable CD (and/or web site) is a wonderful idea. However . . . five years ago, we sold the copyrights and all rights to the book, along with a raft of great marketing plans and ideas, to Pearson (huge British publisher: Prentice-Hall, Penguin, Putnam, Scott Foresman, etc.), which had plans to become a great power in distance learning. A couple of years later, Pearson changed course, decided they didn't want this stuff after all, and sold it to Ten Speed, which hired my daughter and me (but they didn't have to; they could have hired anyone) to do a new edition. So I have nothng whatever to do with the book any more, and Ten Speed seems to have no plans other than the possibility of a new edition every few years.

2. I am much bothered by some of Dr. Levicoff's on-line comments. And what you bring up is really a very basic issue that my wife deals with all the time in her ethics classes: if we really don't like Thing A a person does, and we really do like Thing B, do we avoid B because of A? No simple answer. This arose, for instance, when the great philosopher Heidegger turned out to be a Nazi. Do we ignore his important philosophical writings because of this? Same with Charles Lindbergh. Do we ignore his aviation achievements because he was buddies with Hitler? Do we now boycott Phil Spector's impressive music achievements of the 60s and 70s because he now seems to be a murderer?

Steve's public writings in the world of distance education are valuable and well done: his book "Name It and Frame It," and his detailed Edison portfolio, for instance. Do I ignore those because he is also capable of making incredibly insensitive postings on this forum? I don't know. I just don't know.

And what about the chapter on degrees for inmates? It is a tremendously helpful chapter, from the mail I get -- but the man who wrote it is serving five consecutive life terms, having been convicted of the murder of five people 30 years ago. Certainly far worse than making stupid remarks about the shuttle, or being insulting or profane. Do you have any thoughts on that? Clearly I'm wrestling with such issues, and would really be interested.

Thanks.

John Bear

 

I can't offer a theoretical ethicist's framework for solving this kind of dilemma, but I do have an uninformed opinion.

I think you have to look at the real damage it might cause. In business, we call these "market forces." Does having Levicoff's contributions (or Dean's, for that matter) have a negative impact on the sale of the book, or on its reputation in the industry? I doubt it, even considering Steve's latest "contributions" to this unknown forum.

You can also look at whether or not you want to associate with someone--even if only by including his writings in a book--who espouses what Steve does. (I'm not commenting personally on what he said, and have avoided doing so. I'm only operating on others' opinions that he is wrong.)

You can also look at things over time. My understanding about Dean is that he's sorry. Including his section is not including the writings of someone who still justifies his previous behaviors. Including Steve's is.

My bottom line: much ado about nothing. Steve has said a lot of egregious things over the years; this latest bunch is consistent with that. Yet those kinds of statements haven't seemed to have an impact on previous Bears' Guides....

 

I would say that this book is a great reference book, so if the example could be given with someone who is in line with our societies values, I would use them instead. If not, only using the name recoginition in the sitings at the end of the book, and making that section on portfolios only, not specific to a person.

The others you named above, I do see as unique and artistically related. You are right though, it is a tough issue. I appreciate you have thought about it and recognize the issue.

 

This is interesting. Although I have 7 different dog-eared editions of Bears’ Guide to Earning Degrees (by Distance Learning, Nontraditionally, etc.) on my bookshelves, I have decided (just this week, in fact) not to purchase the 15th edition.

 

Kristie7: "Since Steve Levicoff has made so many offensive (very cruel) comments and postings on this board, have you thought about how that would effect the book's reputation having him referenced in pages of the text? "

Aside from the issue of Dr. Bear's book (which was my start some years ago into the amazing world of distance learning), I think this brings up some issues for the forum.

Kristie and Dr. Bear are apparently concerned that Dr. Levicoff's comments could potentially damage the credibility of the book. I think the comments could damage the credibility or reputation of the degreeinfo forum. Isn't the reason that we have rules and moderators so that some level of professional or civil discourse is maintained? When one member stoops to making comments like Dr. Levicoff's, it makes all of us look bad, especially if nothing is done about it. Perhaps the moderators will do something about it.

I agree that Steve Levicoff has made contributions to the field, but I think that the forum would survive just fine without him.

 

Maybe so, but I don't think Steve's comments were in violation of the TOS. Perhaps yes when he's being insulting, or vulgar, or....But I don't think expressing an opinion that some others find reprehensible is sufficient. I'd rather have the TOS govern this rather than the judgment of this board's moderators. (Who, IMHO, exercise splendid judgment and run a helluva board for very little in return.)

 

I am not a moderator, just someone who has a bit of tack and respect for others.

I don't know what TOS is, but I assume it is a governing enforcement agency - there is no government law broken, but there are things that are done that are not illegal, but against our society's greater good.

I also believe in free speech, and that is why I believe in this forum, but not to support these types of actions that give no value addition. If others could illistrate the same portion in the book, why not use someone who adds value.

 

When we make posts about insensitive inappropriate comments aren't we really giving that person what they want (a reaction)? Degreeinfo has always been very open in allowing free speech. I appreciate that and wouldn't want Degreeinfo to start censoring in any form.

 

TOS = "Terms of Service," or the rules of the board.

 

Obviously many of you know each other, personally, by reputation, or otherwise. And within this group of "acquaintances," these personality issues probably make a significant difference.

However, I'm relatively new to all of this and all of you. I found this discussion board as part of my quest to discover information that will be of use to my finishing my degree through DL. Posts and responses I've read here have helped me make some significant decisions, no matter who posted them. Upon further investigation, the information provided has been very worthwhile.

Similarly, when I bought Dr. Bear's book, I found it to include a wealth of targeted information that wasn't available anywhere else... regardless of who did or didn't contribute to the work.

I never take advice from anyone I don't know personally without doing my own research to check it out. So, keep the comments coming. I'll check you out and find out if you're full of sh** or not...

 

Exactly why I didn't respond. Flamebait is ineffective if you just don't bite. It's an obvious (and childish) cry for attention, so rewarding it with a response just leads to more of the same.

 

I didn’t see it as flame bait. I thought it was a west coast archetype complaining about an east coast archetype. Holy Noel Coward!!

 

The most recent remarks of Steve Levicoff were especially offensive and insensitive. In potential contribution to knowledge and for the overall benefit of society I think, too, that it is inappropriate to compare what Levicoff says with anything Heidegger had to say.

My daughter has a cat she brought back from China. In all appearences, it seems a good cat but something is terribly wrong. When you try to stroke her back she takes great offense and immediately turns to bite and claw chunks of flesh from the offending hand. My advise to my daughter is to warn people that the cat lives in its own very small world.

Some cats are best left alone. If that doesn't work in all cases, some might have to be caged.

 

I just received my copy of Bears’ Guide 15 this morning in my mailbox and already it is becoming dog-eared like the others.

Congratulations (and many thanks) to John and Mariah (and everyone who contributed). Well done!

 

thank you

I want to say a thank you, also, to JB and MB.

It looks like a lot of areas have been splintered because, perhaps, they are expected to expand. Like the religious degrees being splintered into "divinity," etc. or, what I was especially interested in, the many brands of "literature" that were listed in the index.

Many categories are included because, perhaps, JB and MB are expecting more expansion in the fine arts, humanities, etc. that need to go "DL" to survive. ????

Chris

 

As most of you probably know already, we (moderators) believe very strongly in free speech, and give great latitude as to what people want to write. The only thing we have no tolerance for is shilling for degree mills, since it undermines the very purpose of this board.

Steve can be very abrasive and offensive, but he's also helped many, many people in the DL field (me included). I'd much rather read some of his outrageous comments than a sales pitch from a mill.


Bruce

 

Bruce, I can understand your point, but the comments are now becoming racial - see the kike joke on another recent thread. Where does the line get drawn???

If the board approves these types of comments, maybe I am not fit for the DL boards, I surely hope not.

 

Racial, sure. But racist? There is an argument to be made that these kinds of things are relative, not absolute. If a Jew tells a joke that slights Jews, is it racist? If a black person calls another black person "nigger," does it have the same meaning as a white person doing the same? It has been said that the reason why two black men can call themselves "nigger," while a white man cannot, is because when the black man does it, it doesn't have 400 years of racism and oppression behind it.

"We'll take the niggers and the chinks. But not the Irish!"
--- Olson Johnson, "Blazing Saddles"