Southern Christian University Bachelors thru Doctoral

SCU has been discussed here before but I recently looked at their site again. They have some really good distance learning programs Bachelors thru Doctoral level. They are RA.

They have DMin's in Family Therapy that require a suitable Masters degree for admission (as opposed to an MDiv). If I recall it is a 66 credit hour program. Does require some short on campus sessions.

They are developing a PhD (Family Therapy or LPC track)program that should be available soon. It uses computer technology so that it can be interactive. If I read it correctly it appears to be totally non resident.

http://www.southernchristian.edu

North

 

I wonder what SCU's tuition is? The programs could also be a bargain. The M.S. in organizational leadership is only 8 courses. When I checked the tuition and fees page it just stated that costs would be made available to propective students.

John

 

I contacted them a couple of years ago... I don't remember the exact figures (I'm sure that they're much higher today), but I do remember thinking about the following old saying after I saw the tuition...

"If you have to ask for the price you probably can't afford it..."

BruceP

 

I checked into SCU last fall and they sent me a PDF file with their tuition costs. Here's from their Fall 2002 listing, all are per semester hour........

Undergrad, Web credit only.... $340
Grad, Web credit only.... $410
Doctoral (DMin), Web credit only.... $460
plus the assortment of other usual fees.

Residential tuition is slightly less in all cases.

 

SCU is a part of the Churches of Christ network of schools, adjacent to Faulkner University in Montgomery, AL. My problem with them is that in order to teach there you must be Church of Christ. I was part of a house cleaning at the Birmingham, AL campus in 1993. I had taught there for 5 years and one day the director told all who were not CoC that they would not be back the next term.

So, I guess, if you want to learn everything from someone who is CoC in theoretical orientation, and can affort the tuition, you would have a RA degree.

 

Church of Christ

I recently had a member of the Church of Christ in my area come to visit my church. It was a Sunday that I preached on false teachers from the book of Titus. I meet the guy on his way out and thought nothing of it. My sermon was not directed at anyone group or person. I was warning of the danger of false teachers from within the church--ie our local body. Anyway he sent me a strange email and wanted to know if I was qualified to be pastor. It caused me to do some more research on the Church of Christ. I found out that they still believe in the book of Mormon. I am certified in LDS doctrine and was aware that they initially broke off with Smith, but I did not realize they still held to doctrine from the book of Mormon until just recently. One other strange thing I found was that they believe in baptismal regeneration--ie that it is necessary to be baptized for salvation. One reason they may have excluded you from their faculty would be they would have to believe you are deceived or of the devil according to their doctrine.

 

Bill,
I think you are confusing this with one of the Mormon offshoots that use the phrase "Church of Christ" in their names. I can assure you, as a minister in the Christian Churches/Churches of Christ that we do not now, nor have we ever, used the book of Mormon in any way, shape, or form.

BLD

 

If this is truly the case, it would be a pretty big departure from past practice for SACS, wouldn't it? I hope it is true.

 

In fact, most Church of Christ folks would consider Mormons to be in a cult (my apologies to Tony Pina and others).

No way would the CoC use the Book of Mormon.

In reference to Pastor Bill's other comments...
You probably were not talking to a CoC person if he used the word "pastor" either, unless he was trying to convince you that you should be an elder, not a preacher... but thats another discussion...

clint

 

I believe pastorbill may be referring to the Community of Christ church. This church was formerly the RLDS church which was reorganized under Joseph Smith III. They hold to the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants.

The RLDS church split to Community of Christ, and another Church after a decision to allow women in the preisthood. I cannot remember the name of the other church it used to be called RLDS-restoration branch.

 

The Church of Christ

The problem identifying the Church of Christ may be due to the fact that there is probably no one norm for the church. Some of my information came from this website:

http://www.churchofchrist-tl.org/history.html

If you are a CoC and this does not represent your beliefs my apologies.

I assure you that this guy was not Community of Christ. He had been giving my church members tracts on their beliefs. I am not exactly an expert on the Church of Christ, but I am on the LDS and they had an early break with a group that now goes by the name Church of Christ. If you are not aware of this connection, I can imagine within CoC circles it may not be something that is widely known, but it is a historical fact that the Church of Christ broke with Joseph Smith.

Interesting discussion, sorry I am not able add more to the dialog. Maybe others can bring more expertise to the table.

Bill McMullan
M.Div w/biblical languages SEBTS, Wake Forest, NC
Th.M. candidate SEBTS, Wake Forest, NC

 

Re: The Church of Christ

Actually, the group known as Church of Christ (along with the Independent Christian Churches, Disciples of Christ and some others) were part of an early 19th century movement commonly called the Restoration Movement or Stone-Campbell movement. They began when Barton Stone and Thomas and Alexander Cambell called for Christians to drop their denominational barriers and become "just Christians." (I know, it is sad the state the Churches of Christ have fallen into, many thinking they are the only ones who are saved...)

One of the prominent figures in the movement, early on, was a man named Sidney Rigdon. After a period of time, he left and joined with Joseph Smith, becoming fairly prominent there, also. That is about as close as the Churches of Christ have ever been to being joined to the LDS.

You may be certified (whatever that means) about the Mormons, but you are not factually accurate about the historical beginnings of the Churches of Christ. For more reliable info, check out www.acu.edu and go to their ministry section. You can find some helpful links about the history. In addition, you might try to obtain a copy of Dr. Leroy Garrett's The Stone-Cambell Movement. It is a good, easy reading history of the whole movement. I know Dr. Garrett, and he is a wonderful man, going strong in his mid-80s. He does a funny one man presentation about Racoon John Smith, one of the early restoration movement preachers.

anyway,
hope this is useful

clint

 

The Church of Christ and not the Churches of Christ

Clint,

The problem we are having coming to an agreement has to do with the historiography of the restoration movement. The Church of Christ as you refer to it, is also known as the Disciples of Christ or the Christian Church. This is not the same organization which is also known as the Church of Christ, which descended from Joseph Smith. In a sense we are both correct, however, the Disciples of Christ or Christian Church is properly referred to as the Churches of Christ and not the Church of Christ.

There can be no question about the ideas that Smith carried over into Mormonism by way of Sidney Rigdon a former associate of Alexander Campbell. Two major themes of Mormonism are the "Restored Gospel" idea and the teaching of baptismal regeneration. While the Seekers taught that the gospel had been lost the Campbellites taught that it had been restored. Campbell coined the term "restoration," by which he meant the recovery of the New Testament pattern and practices. Smith and Rigdon extended the idea to cover the Old Testament also. Noted Mormon scholars Leonard J. Arrington and Davis Bitton acknowledge the influence of the restoration teaching of Campbell on the early Mormons.

After some further research, I have found that the first name given to the Mormons was also likely to have been influenced by Campbell: the Church of Christ. While the formal name "Disciples of Christ" became a common designation for Campbell's group as early as 1825, he was referring to his church as the "Church of Christ." Some believe that Smith knew Sidney Rigdon, a one-time member of Campbell's Church of Christ, before Rigdon joined the Mormon Church. If so, it is significant that Smith named his group the Church of Christ in 1830.

Thanks for spurring me onward in this subject area.

Shalom,

Pastor Bill

 

'The Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints'

Close...
Tony

 

Bill,
I'll make this one reply and then drop out, as we're getting way off subject here. While some of your information is correct, much of it is not. Sidney Rigdon left the Christian Churches (Churches of Christ) to join with Joseph Smith and the Mormons. There has never been any connection of any kind between Mormonism and the Christian Churches (Churches of Christ).

To prove my point CLICK HERE for a letter dated Feb. 4, 1831 from Thomas Campbell (one of the founders of the Christian Churches/Churches of Christ) to Sidney Rigdon voicing his utter disgust with Rigdon's conversion to Mormonism.

BLD

 

Re: The Church of Christ and not the Churches of Christ

Bill,
I understand that we are talking about two different groups. My reason for writing the above comments was simply to differentiate between the two groups. Many people who read your comments about the Church of Christ using the Book of Mormon will assume that the particular church in their town that has that name does utilize the Book of Mormon. However, that is not the case, as most Churches of Christ are not affiliated with the group you mentioned. Have I sufficiently muddied the waters????

One more comment, then I think I will bow out of this conversation...
150 years ago, Disciples of Christ, Christian Churches and Churches of Christ certainly were the same group. However. in our present society this is not the case. Your comments, which I quote, indicate that they are the same group. Honestly, as sad as it is, most Churches of Christ would have nothing to do with the other two. They are three separate denominations (though many of them would claim NOT to be a denomination).

As to the "Church of Christ" or "Churches of Christ" consideration, really it depends on the context which term is used. When referring to multiple congregations, but not every one of them, then "Churches" would be appropriate. When referring to one particular congregation, "Church" is fine. When referring to all of them, then again, "Church" would be preferred. Actually, most old-timers in Churches of Christ would want the "C" is Church or Churches to be a small letter, and not capital. So really, according to them, it would be the "church of Christ."

All of this is from the perspective of the average member of Churches (churches) of Christ. I personally have some differences of opinion on some of these things (like I would include every person in a saving relationship with God to be in the Church (church) of Christ). Anyway....

BTW, the site that BLD linked to has tons more info on the history of the movement. It is a pretty good site.
later,
clint

 

I believe the Church of Christ here is referred to as the Temple Lot faction. They used to be called RLDS Temple Lot. They own the lot that was to be the temple sight built in the last days. They are a relatively unknown part of the RLDS split.

Since that time I believe another Temple was built by the RLDS church. This was also a bone of contention within the church itself as beliefs had the time, place and dimensions of the temple. This caused the split to the restoration branch movement.

Pastorbill if this was the church the gentleman claimed, it did come from a split with Jospeh Smith. After the lynching of Joseph Smith there were a few groups that arose. One followed Brigham Young to Utah, one believed the preisthood was to be handed from father to son and waited for Joseph Smith III in Independence Mo, and you have discovered a third. I met a gentleman from the Temple Lot at a family reunion. Actually all three groups were represented at the reunion.

This has gotten a little off topic.

 

Re: Re: The Church of Christ and not the Churches of Christ

Wow, this is taking me back to Sunday school and Wednesday night bible study as a kid. OK, speaking as a lapsed member of the church of Chirst (this styling is still quite commonly used, btw), I was taught that the church of Christ did indeed grow out of the Restoration movement led by Campbell, etc. (an early prejoritive name for the congregations was Cambellites). It is my understanding that the most common early name for the congregations was Disciples of Christ, but when a 'split' occurred over the use of instrumental music, two other sects emerged: Christian Church (uses instruments) and Church of Christ (generally no instruments).

Complicating everything when you discuss the Church of Christ is that fact that there is no formal organizational body above the individual congregation - so can have some florid differences in theology. In fact, bitter doctrinal schisms seem to be a favorite pasttime of many contemporary Church of Christ congregations (One from my childhood: whether it was proper to use church funds to aid 'widows and orphans' or whether this had to be an individual effort, the doctrinal correctness or incorrectness depending upon how you read one particular verse in the New Testament. Congregations opposing the use of church funds were called 'antis.' And don't get me started on the 'one cuppers' controversy that swirled for years around communion...).

But, regardless of this kind of hairsplitting, overall the theology generally stays on the conservative, literalist side of the street - none that I have ever heard of would admit the Book of Mormon, heck most won't even admit those piano thumping heritics across the street at the Christian Church.

GE

 

The Church of Christ and not the Churches of Christ

GME - Thanks for your post. Here are a few comments from a Christian that is associated with churches of Christ.

Regards - Andy

This is pretty close - but there turn out to be four groups, as best I understand, that came out of the restoration movement. Disciples of Christ, Christian Church, Independent Christian Churches (sometimes called Churches of Christ, but in any event instrumental) and churches of Christ (non-instrumental). At the time of the split on instrumental music (around the turn of the century) the non-instrumental group was the smallest. That has reversed, however, in the years since. The churches of Christ (of which I associate) don't profess to be a denomination - just to be Christians.

Southern Christian University as well as a group of other colleges and universities (Harding, Abilene Christian, David Libscomb, Freed Hardeman, Lubbock Christian, Ohio Valley, Rochester, York, Cascade, Pepperdine and Faulkner) are associated with the non-instrumental churches of Christ.

This is certainly true - yet it is amazing to me that I can stop in nearly any city in the U.S. (not to mention various cities throughout the world) and find folks to worship with that share very similar views. The connection is organic - not organizational.

This may have been the case in times past, but today such schisms are largely gone. Contempoary congregations that I'm familiar with are far more concerned with ministering to a lost world than arguing over such trivial matters.

I certainly agree here.