Columbia Commonwealth University ad in Christianity Today

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Guest, Jan 27, 2003.

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  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    In my latest addition of Christianity Today CCU has an ad for its PhD in Pastoral Counseling. Fully licensed by the State of Wyoming Deptartment of Higher Education. That should instill confidence. I wonder if it would qualify you for licensure as an LPC in Wyoming (rhetorical question). No mention of the accreditation by Malawi.

    Aside from the issues with CCU/CPU history and accreditation (lack of) I am somewhat amused by the ad as my impression of them was that they are into more a *new age* perspective and Christianity Today is an evangelical oriented pub. CCU might be better off advertising in Body & Soul or maybe even Charisma. But what do I know. I did once know a UMC pastor who got a CPU PhD. He had a DMin (accredited) but I guess wanted the PhD intials for his secular work as a therapist.

    I suppose if Trinity in Indiana has a shot a Regional Accreditation then maybe the same could be said for CCU. Who knows, maybe CCU will achieve RA and then open the Dr. Steve Levicoff School of Alternative Fundamentalist Theology and the John Bear School for the Performing Arts.

    North
     
  2. Hmmm... let's see.... Levicoff has said in the past that one could get a PhD concentration in basket-weaving from Union, and a concentration in levitation from Maharishi U. As for the Bear School, why not a concentration in circle dancing with CCWU? I can definitely see it.

    Bemusedly,
    Earon
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    CCWU also had an ad in the most recent edition of Pulpit Helps. Perhaps the CCWU is leaning toward a more fundamentalist theological position.

    Holistic Fundamentalism! ;)
     
  4. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Holistic anything.

    To repeat a statement from the past.

    Is holism more closely related to the field of halfism or the field known as perforationism?
     
  5. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Note asb. that this "holism" has zip to do with the philosophical holism developed by J.C. Smuts and Alfred Hoernle.
     
  6. If I remember correctly from when I was at CPU, the school did have a course on holism, which indeed stemmed from the ideas of Jan Smuts and extended to a variety of contexts. Richard Crews (the Harvard psychiatrist and homeopathic physician who was CPU's president), developed the coursework. Crews had operated a holistic center in California before coming on board with CPU. He developed the course on holism. Crews and another holistic health practitioner also developed a couple of courses on nutrition and lifestyle, in which the student monitored eating, fitness, and other related lifestyle practices throughout the whole program, completed work assisgments and wrote related papers. I believe CCWU has now taken the idea and seems to be running with it.

    CPU also incorporated the holism concept into its general program design, hence the idea of incorporating life and work experience into a curriculum. At the time there was considerable effort expended by students in developing learning plans based on life and work experiences, and finding ways of incorporating those experiences into their study plan. In addition there were other core elements that had to be completed - comprising 10 papers per course for number of courses.

    For about 15 years this concept had the blessing of the education powers in California. Thus, it seemed that CPU was able to market the program quite easily. All catalogues contained the California approval document, which stated clearly that the programs were equivalent to regionally accredited programs. Regional accreditors and certain RA non-traditional schools objected strongly to the California blessing of schools such as CPU and their programs (source: Stewart and Spille, 1988 - "Degree Mills: Defrees of Fraud", published by ACE). Times did change and I believe that there did exist a lobby that eventually succeeded in swaying favor away from CPU.

    Dr. Carr (PhD - Vanderbilt, and president of CCWU), I believe, is quite a newage and activist type. Yet, I understand his preferred religion is Christianity. So maybe the CCWU pastoral program would indeed have a newage Christianity flavour. I have no idea what that would look like. See below for more on CPU and holism.
    Earon

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Early comments from John Bear (late 1970's) on CPU's program and the holistic emphasis:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    From John Bear:
    Columbia Pacific University
    Address: 150 Shoreline, Mill Valley, California 94941 (415) 332-7832

    Columbia Pacific represents a major attempt to establish a new non-residential university – the first in Northern California. Non-residential bachelors, masters, and doctorates are offered. The first students were enrolled in the Spring of 1978.

    Three things impress me about Columbia Pacific, in comparison with all the other non-residential universities now operating at the undergraduate and graduate level.

    The quality of the people involved. The President, Richard Crews, is a psychiatrist with his M.D. from Harvard University. The co-founder and Dean, Les Carr, Ph.D., was, for many years, President of a large traditional university in Illinois. No other school of its kind has officers with such impressive backgrounds.


    The facilities. Unlike many new schools that start out with small rented offices and no permanent foundation, CPU is being built on the foundation of an existing and large entity, the Wholistic Health and Nutrition Institute, which has its own large building, a national clientele and reputation, and a good staff. This close interaction, between University and Institute, is reflected in CPU's emphasis in areas related to health sciences, nutrition, wholistic health, rehabilitation counseling, and the like. However, with an adjunct (part-time) faculty of more than 80 persons (nearly all with earned doctorates), degree work is available in dozens of fields, including business, psychology, aviation management, law enforcement, fire sciences, and economics.


    The costs are quite low, CPU apparently feels that while it is not wrong to make a profit running a school, it need not be an exorbitant profit. The cost of degree programs has been set well under those offered by any of the other schools operating under California's $50,000 law (i.e. if you have that much in property, and meet other minimal requirements, you are authorized to grant degrees). The typical degree programs cost around $1,600 to $1,700.
    The comments above are taken from a document titled "Information Prepared by Dr. John Bear Exclusively for his Counseling Clients", (there is no date attached, but based on the content, it appears to have been written around 1978 or shortly after 1978). The document bears the number 497811 and is assumed to be an information document used by Bear early on in his educational consulting practice.

    John DeNevers, CPU alum and supplier of the document writes the following on the above document:
    It was "Prepared exclusively for the clients of Degree Consulting Services". The date of personal consulting services with Dr.John Bear was January 22, 1980.
    At that time the address was: John Bear, Ph.D., Drawer H, Littleriver, CA 95456. It's now: Degee Consulting Services, PO Box 3533, Santa Rosa, CA 95402. Consulting's done by Peter K. Proehl (DeNevers, March 13, 2001, by email)
     
  7. Myoptimism

    Myoptimism New Member

    It seems, for the specific time, to be a strong endorsement. Considered with other time specific truths, I might enroll in the school.

    Tony
     
  8. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

    A Snobbish Stab at a Research Procedure

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2003
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: A Snobbish Stab at a Research Procedure

    1) The vast majority of degree/program advertisements in CT are not DL programs. Some are, but most aren't. And only a very small percentage are from non-RA/ATS schools.

    2) Did North state that CT was a research tool? I have subscribed to CT for years, and have never used it as a research tool. On a few occasions when an article from a periodical was required I pulled one from CT, but the publication is not designed as an academic journal.

    3) Now the "church bound" theologians of which your "acquaintance" alludes, it would seem that if anyone would be "church bound" it would be catholic theologian Hans Kung.
     
  10. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    So they made the link to Smuts? Well, good for them! I'm impressed and surprised.
     
  11. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

    Re: Re: A Snobbish Stab at a Research Procedure

    ===

    Bill says: I would hardly call Kung bound to the Roman Catholic tradidtion, Russell:

    1) In his '65 book, 'Justification' he says Trent and Calvinism have the same view on that doctrine! [perhaps that's why you feel him 'bound' ."

    2) In his 'Apostolic Succession' in '68 he questions that the papacy is a pastoral office!

    3) in his '72 book 'Infallible' Kung rejects the inerrancy of the Pope. The effects of this was that he was removed as a teacher of RC! He also rejects the infallibility of Scripture!

    4) In his '71 book 'On being a Christian' he rejects Christ as the divine Savior but postulates that Jesus is our example and does represent God as God's Spokesperson!

    5) Kung rejects the Christology of the ancient creeds as Chalcedon which are accepted by RC!

    6) Kung rejects Jesus' sacrificial death and the historicity of Hisbodily resurrection!


    (Sources: Evangelical Dictionary of Theology and The Christology of Hans Kung......But NOT Christianity Today)

    Thus, clearly Kung does not feel bound to RC theology!!!
     
  12. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    Earon:
    Did you get permission from Dr. Bear to post your message? If not, I cannot quite fathom how you can acknowledge (more than once) that a document was prepared as a professional service and is clearly marked as being for the exclusive use of paying customers, yet feel no compunction whatsoever freely posting it (or excerpts) in a public forum.
     
  13. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Dr. Bear has also freely acknowledged setting the Reichstag fire.

    In 1980 Columbia Pacific may have been among the best distance programs but times change. There were hardly any accredited programs in 1980?

    For the time the advice was probably excellent but after the ownership of the school screwed it up and lost their license, it doesn't look so good.

    What screwed up my life was being falsely blamed for putting ink marks on the back of Margaret Merkus's sweater forty years ago. We all like to blame someone else for being losers.
     
  14. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2003
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Re: Re: A Snobbish Stab at a Research Procedure

    Drats! I hate it when you discover my true motive, Bill. :D
     
  16. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: A Snobbish Stab at a Research Procedure

    ===


    "Drats" ...??..Russell, have you fallen from grace?:D
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A Snobbish Stab at a Research Procedure

    Bill, you know that what you suggest is impossible. ;)
     
  18. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Gus on Earon:
    "Earon: Did you get permission from Dr. Bear to post your message? If not, I cannot quite fathom how you can acknowledge (more than once) that a document was prepared as a professional service and is clearly marked as being for the exclusive use of paying customers, yet feel no compunction whatsoever freely posting it (or excerpts) in a public forum."

    John on Gus on Earon:
    Yeah, I thought about that, too. No one asked me. The information sheets that I used to send out were copyrighted. What bothers me even more about this, however, is the omission of the fact that these information sheets were sent to clients clearly separated into packets labelled "Accredited Schools" and "Unaccredited Schools." CPU was, of course, in the "Unaccredited" packet. Seeing this one page in isolation does not make clear that I was in no way saying CPU was comparable to accredited schools.

    Incidentally, other sheets included in that "unaccredited schools" packet would probably have included what is now Union Institute & University, Walden University, and International College (which I once called my favorite non-traditional school . . . and I guess it still is. In the APBA computer baseball games I play, it is possible to put together a team of what you think of as the best from any era, always with a year attached, so Christy Mathewson (1905) and Sandy Koufax (1965), for instance, can be on the same team. In that model, I'll still vote for International College (1980) as my #1).
     
  19. I'm confused. The document was given to me by its owner, John DeNevers, to be placed on the www.altcpualumni.org website. I don't take the phrase "... Prepared Exclusively ... for His Counseling Clients" to translate to a declaration of copyright. I take it to mean a declaration of special service and good product- a kind of marketing stance in the mode of a baking product statement as in "baked with love in our kitchen ... and delivered fresh to yours".

    No offence intended. It's just that I tend toward dealing in facts, documents... things like that.
    Earon
     
  20. I agree pretty much with Dennis, although I think there were a number of accredited alternative schools in the 1980's (can't remember how many - Rich?? Bear??) What is deemed 'real and good' is usually located in time and changes with time. I doubt if all RA schools will be always be deemed good. The unaccreditted could well be deemed bad for a long time. I'd definitely place my bet on the traditional RA schools, and most definitely on the European and UK schools, but not the others.

    Earon (who's gotten somewhat conservative in his middle years).
     

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