The Continuing Education of Pastors

In an article in Your Church magazine (Jan-Feb 2003 issue) titled "The Continuing Education of Pastors," the following selective quotes are interesting. John LaRue, vice-president of Internet research and development at Christianity Today International, wrote the article. 1,989 surveys were mailed and 557 returned, for a response rate of 28%

1. "While 25% of American adults have a college degree, 92% of pastors have an undergrad degree and 7 out of 10 have earned either a masters (55%) or a doctorate (14%)."

2. "Highest Education Level:

8%--Attended College
17%--4 year degree
6%--Master's level study
46%--Master's degree
9%--Doctoral level study
14%--Doctoral degree"

3. "Another third plans to take external study courses."

4. "When pastors were asked if they or their spouse would consider taking courses on-line, two-thirds said they would.

5."The following pastors had at least a master's degree:

100% of Presbyterians and Lutherans
98% of Methodists
72% of Conservative
70% of Evangelicals
69% of Baptists
30% of Independent, fundamentalist & non-denominational
17% of Pentecostal/Charismatics"

6. "Pastors without a master's degree are twice as likely to read regularly from the KJV of the Bible (41%), than pastors with a master's degree (22%).

Interesting!

 

Psychology

Good Morning, I wondered if pastors had to have a background in psychology? It seems like an obvious focus but I am probably wrong. Hille

 

Re: Re: The Continuing Education of Pastors

Bill,

An affinity for the trinitarian Trinity (i.e., Trinity College of the Bible/Trinity Theological Seminary/MDS) is indeed embedded deeply in your psyche. But I still count you as a brother.

 

is it possible that these #s are a bit generous, since, most likely, the 28% that responded are probably people who considered the survey worth their time (ie, value education more anyway).

?

that would be shocking

perhaps the number of pastors to have a doctorate were predestined to have them by the eternally begotten SOG!

 

Interesting survey Russell. Some parts of it do not surprise me (Lutherans/Methodists with higher education levels). I think those without degrees may be under represented in the survey as I think I have heard of higher numbers of uneducated clergy (news shows wanting to take a poke fun at Christianity seem to find them). As someone pointed out the survey may be skewed depending on the methodology used (ie was it mailed to Christianity Today readership who overall may have a higher education level). If the same survey were mailed to the readers of Charisma magazine the survey may come out differently. Some of the differences are amusing. I remember reading Charisma once and several people wrote in to chastise the magazine for the pictures of Gore. They felt the magazine presented a better picture of Bush in order to skew the vote. You could tell the letter writers were democrat leaning and I do not believe the readership of Christianity Today would have engaged in discussing that (in general seem to stick to issues with more depth).

North

 

Many (most?) denominations require a university level education of some sort as a condition of ordination, don't they?

Another thing: given the number of non-accredited schools existing under religious exemptions, and given what may be kind of an expectation that a clergyman have a degree (preferably advanced), I wonder what the distribution of non-accredited degrees is in this. My guess is quite low in some denominations but perhaps considerably higher in other places (especially independent churches).

 

Are the requirements denominational?

In the Seventh-day Adventist tradition, all pastors are required to have a Bachelor of Arts in Pastoral Theology. For those who enter ministry late in life, but already have an undergraduate degree, they have to return to complete some of the coursework that would normally have been done for the B.A.

After completing the B.A., a pastor has to go to seminary and complete the Master of Divinity. By and large, most pastors in North America complete this degree at the regionally and ATS accredited Seventh-day Adventist Theological Seminary, Andrews University. Ocassionally, one would attend a Garrett Theological Seminary or the like and would still be hired. Doctoral studies is encouraged but not required. There is less concern about where doctoral work is done, as long as it is from an accredited institution. Just imagine, one professor at Andrews University, a former Jesuit, completed his Th.D. at the Pontifocal Gregorian University in Rome. You can imagine that he turns a few heads on a Seventh-day Adventist Campus and is often accused of being a "spy" for the Catholic church. Silly, but some people really believe it.

In general, the clear majority of SDA pastors then have M.Divs, while a few have only a B.A. A minority have doctorates (mostly D.Mins) with a few earning Ph.Ds and Th.Ds. These usually leave pastoral ministry and enter academia.

 

Jesus and University Degrees

Interesting comments. With all due respect, you guys make Jesus and the apostles look like ignorant peasants. Isn't interesting to consider the fact that Jesus did not reclute the men of higher learning- for example the Pharisees and Scribes, who despite their training in the scriptures were not able to actually understand the real meaning of God's word, nor to love their spiritual sheep- but instead he chose simple, loving men, fisherman, farmers, tent makers etc...to spread the spread the 'good news of God's kingdom'?

It is not that I feel that it is wrong to have and education. It is the concept that, in order for a person to have credibility as someone entrusted by God to take care of the spiritual flock, one needs to have a degree. God seems to be depending on the universities now to dispense His guidance. Well, It simply couldn't be so expecially considering this concept: 'You received free, give free' Mt 10:8. or 2 Pet.1:2-4 . Which university do you know to impart knowledge about God for free? :-}

So, really, in my opinion, it should not be the human institution of higher learning that qualifies a man to take good care of the flock, but as Paul said in 2 Tim. 3:16, 17 it is the Holy writings that make a man fully competent and completely equipped, and as we can gather from the rest of the scriptures, is love, dedication and tender care that will qualify a man as a teacher and spiritual guide, nor his 'titles'.

I expect lots of fiery and 'scholarly' replies to my posting and I will not engage in useless arguments. I just couldn't keep quite on the subject as I think Jesus also would not be silent in regards nor would he be impressed by University degrees.

Respectfully,
A.J.

 

Christopher,
I think your suspicions are valid. An article in the most recent edition of the Society for the Scientific Study of Religion's quarterly journal revealed that, among all pastors in the United Methodist Church's Midwestern region, something like 30% did not have a seminary degree. This number, of course, is dramatically different than the 98% reflected in the survey results under consideration here.

Cory Seibel

 

Re: Jesus and University Degrees

AJ,

I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying. Within my denomination, the North American Baptist Conference, which has a rich heritage of traditional theological education (two ATS-accredited seminaries), we are recognizing the shortcomings of this traditional approach. We have implemented an exciting "new" approach to developing emerging leaders within the local church context that seems to be working quite well. Furthermore, we are exploring various approaches to providing ministerial training for these emerging leaders in a church-based approach. Of course, this is likely to continue to involve the granting of degrees. However, we are recognizing that the traditional paradigms never were presented to us on stone tablets. Next month, I will be part of a team of individuals from throughout the denomination who will be meeting with representatives of three different seminaries. The purpose of this gathering will be to explore striking up a relationship with one of these seminaries whereby they will aid us in providing distributive, church-based training for emerging leaders.

At this point in history, there are a number of crucial questions that must be asked with relation to the integrity of theological education. May we have the courage to address them!

Cory Seibel

 

Re: Jesus and University Degrees

Three quick points:

Anyone who spends three years training in the physical presence of Jesus doesn't need the equivalency of a modern education as far as I'm concerned. But to my knowledge, the last man to fit that bill died a few millennia ago.

The Bible was written in a time and context foreign to the modern reader. Education is necessary so we can bridge the linguistic, cultural, geographical, and historical gaps that separate us from the original recipients (and thus the original intents of the authors). If we truly believe Scripture is sufficient, we'll acquire the skills and tools to handle it competently.

You are correct, in my opinion, in saying that one need not possess a degree to minister. Nonetheless, one must be learned to do it effectively.

 

I can't help but say something here too.

It seems to me that the university "experience" is an individualistic one. One sifts through a curriculum as an isolated individual and the community at large, as a contrast, has no responsibility for your grades. Is it possible that the community one belongs to, to some degree (pehaps slight), has some responsibility for one's grades? The community we belong to includes those we interact with, muse with, use language with.

I see the danger of seminary eduation not being that pastors actually go out and earn MDivs, etc. Instead, we simply can't rely on that to make someone spiritual. Spirituality has to be rooted in redemption, not through an intellectual process.

So one can get a PhD or an MDiv or whatever, that's not wrong. I just don't think the seminary (which models after the university) usually has enough guidance in it to direct people spiritually. Often, instead, we give grades and credentials that amount to nothing more than religion and the perpetuation of an evangelical "culture."

Chris

 

Re: Jesus and University Degrees

 

Re: Jesus and University Degrees

Your 'tent maker' was very proud of the fact that he had studied under Gamaliel I, the leading Pharisaic scholar of his day, was he not? (Acts 22:3)

I think that your point is both correct and mistaken.

I think that you are right to point out that spirituality and heart are not the same thing as theological learning. Some highly educated theologians, like scholars of any sort, seem to me to use their learning as a kind of intellectual masturbation, as pleasurable self-stimulation. (I'm guilty of this myself.) When it comes to dealing with their fellows they are as unfeeling, curt and abrupt as a tax auditor. They probably repel more people from Christ (or whatever religion they represent) than they attract.

But I think that you are mistaken for several reasons. For one thing, clergymen are often administators of churches, which requires some skill in management. Even more importantly, clergymen have a critical social role as a kind of alternative counselor, which requires considerable skill in dealing with people in crisis.

And many people who are vitally interested in religion aren't just looking for somebody to show them fellowship or to emote all over them. They are looking for authoritative teaching on the doctrines and understandings of the religion in question. Meeting that need is necessarily going to require some education in those matters.

Bottom line (in my opinion, at least): In any religion (not just Christianity), just as in any human endeavor, head and heart need to work together.

Imbalance results from overemphasizing one road over the other. But if they work in concert, there is no harm and great value in pursuing both of them.

 

The Christian as Learner and the Pastor as the Teacher of the Word of God.




It has been correctly expressed that theological knowledge does not necessarily result in heightened spirituality ,and that doctrinal erudition is not necessarily a corollary to all pastoral virtues such as caring for the flock. These points granted ,there nevertheless remains the apostolic imperatives to learn and teach ; even the word "disciple" means 'a student.' Forgive me for putting this into the framework of an educator. I've written a detailed discussion for each point but will post only the outline of it here . I contend that there are apostolic criteria by which to measure the quality of teaching and of learning in the church.

Benchmarks For The Christian as an Effective Learner

1) Will be enabled to hold to the tradition by understanding the theology of 1 Corinthians and the Thessalonian letters (1 Cor 11:2;2 Thess 2:15).

2) Will be enabled to remain in the doctrine by understanding the Christology of the Fourth Gospel (2 Jo 9).

3) Will be able to evaluate contrasting doctrine by the theology of Romans to discern the false from the true(Rom 16:17).

4) Will be enabled to walk a life pleasing to the Lord by learning the theology of Colossians (Col 1:10;4:6).


Benchmarks For The Pastor as an Effective Teacher

1) Will save himself and his (or her) students by being immersed in the theological discipline (1 Tim 4:13-15).

2) Will prepare his students to resist being led away by false theology (Eph 4:13-15).

3) Will grasp and use Paul's fixed theological norm to both exhort believers and convince those who deny correct the theology of their errors(Titus 1:9)

4) Using Paul's own example will spend him/herself in order to prevent the savage wolves of false teaching from drawing away members of the flock(Acts 20:17-31)

My notes on these points are extensive and based on lexical and exegetical observations. For example, passing on tradition (paradidomai) refers to the transmission of doctrine(DNTT 2:368) and "teaching" (didaskalia, often articulated as "THE Teaching") pertains to a fixed body of doctrine, the sum of the doctrine (DNTT, 3:770). In Titus 1:9 the verb 'elegcho' means an educative discipline (TDNT 2:474) . Should the pastor do more than teach well? Sure, but not to teach wee is not to pastor well.

As the tense in 1 Tim 5:17 suggests, the good pastor WEARS HIMSELF OUT in the Word. If all that is desired in church is comfort and fellowship, we may as well join the Elk's Lodge.

While I am not a pastor, any suggestion that a pastor need not be well grounded in Systematic and Biblical Theology, Biblical Introduction, hermeneutics and principles of exegesis, basic historical and contemporary theology, as well as the more practical disciplines of counseling, adminstration, and homiletics and I suppose other areas as well , I find silly, stupid. Can you always get someone to listen to you without these? Sure! The existence of millish Bible colleges and seminaries which grant degrees for insubstantial effort and products witness to that fact . There will always be someone to listen even though the mesage is garbled. But to follow the Pauline requisites are degrees absolutely required, no. degrees are not required. Is genuine learning necessary? You bet it is! And the easiest way to learn is to be taught well.

 

Re: Re: The Continuing Education of Pastors

I just noticed that when you abbreviate the doctorate degrees offered by Masters Divinity School, it's a DPM (for Doctor of Practical Ministry) -- the same as the abbreviation for Podiatrists (DPM for Doctor of Podiatric Medicine). I wonder if they knew that ahead of time. Hmmmm....

Jack+

WHAT???[/SIZE] Only 14% of pastors have doctorates? Something must be done!


Bill to the rescue: http://www.mdivs.edu/practical.html [/B][/QUOTE]

 

Question?

How many of this degrees are R.A?
How many of this degrees are not R.A but have recognized Accreditation.

How many have unrecognized Accreditation?
How many are unaccredited?

How many form ULC?

Mikhail

 

in reply to Bill Grover

I expect lots of fiery and 'scholarly' replies to my posting and I will not engage in useless arguments. I just couldn't keep quite on the subject as I think Jesus also would not be silent in regards nor would he be impressed by University degrees.

And that is just what I got from you, Bill Grover. Your reply is puffed up with pride, and your tone doesn't reflect respect for another person's point of view. You certainly list lots of secular credentials but you'll never find Jesus speaking to an audience of illiterate and ignorant persons- at least that is what you are assuming I am- with the pompous attitude and the erudite expressions you used in your reply.

With your attitude you made my very point. Obviously, it is not degrees that make a person a true spiritual sheperd, but his\her ability to display the fruits of the Spirit in all things. Also when disagreeing with others. It would mean that the person has understood and applied the very core of Jesus' message - with or without the help of an 'impressive' educational background.

Think and say what you want, I do not have to engage in biblical arguments with you nor I do not have to answer your test questions to have a valid point of view or to know the meaning of the Scriptures, especially since I'm very familiar with Jesus' counsel about making a wise use of our pearls so as not to get them trampled.

I apologize to all readers for the imperfections in my English since it is not my mother language

 

Jesus was a scholar

A.J.,

Since you are continuing to read this post, I wanted to leave it with a parting thought.

I think your correction on earning credentials not being the same thing as discipleship is important.

While I agree with this, and I have stated above that spirituality is the most important thing, I forgot to add to my first post that "Jesus was a scholar."

What I mean by that is that Jesus had an extensive knowledge of the OT scriptures of his day. He studied for many years before beginning his teaching ministry. For instance, the passage where he quotes Isaiah in Luke 4 shows that he read from the Hebrew scroll in the synagogue. That is, he read unpointed* Hebrew, which takes many many years to master, even for the best hebrew scholars.

What this means to me is that the discipled life, in Christ, can never be detached from the Scriptures. So while you life a discipled life, don't seek to use "Christ alone" as an excuse not to pursue the best truths you can find with the available knowledge that God keeps you accountable for.

Chris

*the "unpointed" hebrew is often distinguished from the "masoretic" text we use for contemporary Biblia Hebraica, or "B19." It was "unpointed," meaning that it had no vowels. The difficulty of reading this could be illustrated by trying to rdthrstfmysntnc.