RIP: Fathom.com

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Jason D. Baker, Jan 7, 2003.

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  1. Jason D. Baker

    Jason D. Baker New Member

    From the Chronicle:

    "Columbia University announced on Monday that it will shut down Fathom, its for-profit online-learning venture, which had been designed to sell Web-based courses and seminars to the public."

    -- Read the full article

    From the NY Times:

    "After three years and more than $25 million in investments, Columbia University will fold Fathom.com, the commercial company it created to provide courses and other material over the Internet, the university announced yesterday.

    Columbia said that beginning April 1, its efforts to reach alumni and other off-campus groups through the Internet will be housed within the university and done under a nonprofit umbrella, Digital Knowledge Ventures."

    -- Read the full article (registration required)

    Jason D. Baker
    http://www.bakersguide.com
     
  2. Fathom

    One of my colleagues at work today asked several of us why it seems sometimes that literally NO universities in the so-called top-tier are able to make it in the distance learning environment. Here is my oh so humble reply!

    "1. Devotion to an inflated notion of quality vs. flexibility that locks some universities into traditional academic and business models that do not transpose to the online market.
    2. Unwillingness to provide flexible and accelerated learning paths.
    3. Unwillingness to accommodate working adults in general.
    4. Wedded to enormous and costly "hoop jumping excercises" for admission - GMATs, GREs, letters of recommendation, interviews with faculty, vs. just looking at a person's previous educational credentials, GPA, and work experience.
    5. Misunderstanding of the distance learning model in terms of the cohort/15 students per professor theory (e.g., to the contrary, Heriot-Watt University, a successful online/distance learning institution supports 8,000 MBA students world-wide with only 15 full-time faculty).
    6. Lack of marketing $, and complete and total misunderstanding of the service economy in which universities must compete.

    There are some institutions that are doing quite well in the online world. They are Capella, Phoenix, Heriot-Watt, Touro University International, Regis University, University of Southern Queensland, and Jones International. These institutions do not fall into the traps above, have broken the mold, and are STILL highly regarded with appropriate levels of accreditation in place (regional, national, royal charters). Not all of them are "for profit" universities. Regis, for example, is a well respected Jesuit brick&mortar institution in Colorado. I would recommend looking at resources such as www.degreeinfo.com for further information on the successful world of online education, and how the winners are doing it."
     
  3. Orson

    Orson New Member

    So, Carl--to summarize--problems in marketing, production, and structuring keep top tier educational institutions from being successful in this ed segment. Correct?

    --Orson
     
  4. Yup. Combined with a negative attitude about having to "lower themselves" to distance learning in general.... This is coming from one who is currently working in a VERY traditional university system attempting to make a go of it, and running into all the roadblocks and faculty intransigence to new thinking.

    It's hard to be successful when you start the game thinking that winning is beneath you....
     
  5. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I must be missing something. They have the marketing magic of the 'Columbia' name and a DL budget that many other schools can only dream of, but can't seem to create a viable program?

    This isn't a very good advertisement for a Columbia MBA, is it?
     
  6. Orson

    Orson New Member

    Re: Re: RIP: Fathom.com

    You are entirely correct. Except that Columbia is one among three (or four, if one includes Yale's late start), I think, Ivy League schools without an MBA program until--I'm almost guessing here
    --the late 80s?

    It seems Columbia was given huge "browny points" merely because of the halo-effet, i.e., that is was Columbia that was sanctioning the degree.

    One could argyue that the MBA really (was? is?) an outside professional's degree.
    --Orson
     
  7. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Re: Fathom

    I think that's overstated. Here in California, Stanford, USC. UC Irvine and Pepperdine have DL degree programs. Most of the UC Extensions offer individual classes and certificates.

    But despite being overstated, there's a lot of truth to it.

    "Top-tier" education, almost by definition, is aimed at highly selected traditional age full-time students. The coolest of the 'top tier' schools are the "research universities", and the expectation is that many of their students will go on to full-time on-campus graduate school and then into teaching careers. In other words, 'top tier' education optimized for for young academic careerists.

    Compare that to 'lower tier' universities, which are more apt to offer vocationally oriented majors on a part-time basis, often at night, to a less selected student body. These schools are more interested than the elite schools in broadening educational opportunity.

    OK, now look at DL. It's *all* about broadening educational opportunity, isn't it? It consists of non-selective admissions, part-time students, non-traditional ages and vocational subjects.

    DL threatens exactly the aspect of education that the prestige schools use as their selling point: the intense classroom experience with their elite faculties. Labs and practical experiences are downplayed and in a few cases professors and instruction are eliminated entirely.

    I think that many "top tier" schools don't see offering DL programs as being part of their mission. And I think that they fear that by offering them, they would dilute their brands.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2003
  8. Charles

    Charles New Member

    The success of Alllearn has shown that the the "top tier" schools can be successful in this field. The All Learn classes are for personal enrichment only. That said, I believe All Learn could easily be just as successful with for-credit classes. Bill Dayson is probably right on the money.


    "In an arena where other prestigious universities have failed, Yale has proven successful. AllLearn.org, Yale's online learning venture in collaboration with Oxford and Stanford, is one of the few "dot-com university" projects that has grown and flourished."

    http://www.yaleherald.com/article.php?Article=1159

    Gert started a thread in October:

    http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=56945#post56945
     
  9. Homer

    Homer New Member

    Re: Fathom

    One of my colleagues at work today asked several of us why it seems sometimes that literally NO universities in the so-called top-tier are able to make it in the distance learning environment...

    The short answer is that they don't offer DEGREES via DL. Duke (Fuqua) appears to be the only one with half a clue and, thus, is being rewarded to the tune of 95 large for a DL MBA.

    There are some institutions that are doing quite well in the online world. They are Capella, Phoenix, Heriot-Watt, Touro University International, Regis University, University of Southern Queensland, and Jones International....

    Doing quite well because they DO offer degrees via DL.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2003
  10. Jason D. Baker

    Jason D. Baker New Member

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