tuition free religious on-line-education: Concordia Theologica Institute For Biblit

Does anyone know them: "Concordia Theologica Institute For Biblical Studies" - they offer tuition free on-line-education for
Evangelical Protestant Ministers at all degree levels:

http://www.angelfire.com/pa5/epconline/seminary.html

Any ideas?

adelheid

 

I recommend this program highly for you, adelheid. If it takes up a sufficient amount of your time, perhaps you will cease posting your idiotic inquiries, almost every one of which deals with a degree or diploma mill like this one.

As I write this, you have posted 115 messages on this board. If you cannot recognize a bogus school on your own by now, you don't belong here.

Happy New Year.

 

But Steve, what is a bogus school, really!!!!!!! Just kidding.

 

levicoff

Steve:

Your reply was uncalled for and rude. Last I checked, this forun was for better or for worse open to ALL inquiries regarding on- line learning.

If it is true that the past 115 posts by Adelheid have all been about bogus schools and they annoy you then maybe you should have stopped reading them lets say.................114 posts ago.

I got more info looking up this school due to his post than I did from your post. Maybe his question saved someone a bit of money.

Sorry for the diatribe but arrogance and rudeness really gets under my skin.

Rafael

BS, Western State University, Fullerton, CA
JD, Western State University, Fullerton, CA ( ABA)
MBA, Pepperdine University, Malibu, CA
MS, Kansas State University, Manhattan KS ( 2003)

 

Re: levicoff

Dear Steve:

I accept your critique, however I do not accept being called an idiot. This particular school appeared in yahoo when I did a search on inexpensive religious education, and I just wanted to know if anyone has experience with them as they claim that they are free of charge. Not everybody wants to use a degree for professional reasons, or in order to impress family and friends with a "Dr.", some just want to do enroll in DL for personal, truly egoistic, self-centered, reasons of pure self-development.

Anyway, bless you!

adelheid

 

ps

Dear Steve:

Maybe you got my post wrong. Again, I was not inquiring if their courses can be transferred to an accredited university, I don't think they can, this was not the point of my post. Some of their courses looked interesting, and I wondered if anyone out there has any experience with them, before proceeding any further (i.e. using what you correctly called my valuable time ). That's all. Steve, what is wrong with taking some courses purely for interest and self-development, regardless of whether they are RA or not?

Anyway, I hope that you have a wonderful New Year , and, please, please, looking at some of your posts, especially in these troubled times, nobody needs to be aggressive or rude, really, we all share the same interests here, let peace prevail in our posts and on earth,

adelheid

PS Rafael, I do agree with you.

 

It should be pointed out that this organization has nothing to do with the various reputable schools run by the liberal Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (Concordia Seminary,St. Louis, Concordia Theological Seminary, Fort Wayne, and numerous undergrad schools which are part of the "Concordia system".

It should also be pointed out that the claim of this group to be the lineal successor of the old Evangelical Protestant Church, which merged with the Congregationalists in the 1920's, is extremely dubious on church-historical grounds. The idea of synods and bishops would have appeared rather komisch to the old EP's. This sounds like episcopi vagantes for low-church types: the bestowal of grandiose titles upon the ignorant and the, uh, unusual.

Having read through the page, the pious references to old EPC ministers notwithstanding, most of the church history is wrong and the claim to represent the old EP tradition without real foundation.

James Clifton (I hear bells, bells!) has some connection to this organization.

Adelheid, you might want to take your business to Kinsel's...This thing looks dubious.

 

thank you, uncele janko, for your valuable advise. I was mislead by their name and history claims - thankfully cleared up by you.

adelheid

 

I note that Dr, Dr, Dr, Dr, Dr (Dr) Trudy Veerman, with four earned docs in theology and one or two in other stuff, profs at this school. Some of us will recall the dialogue with Dr trudy in, I believe, the "calling Jimmy Clifton" thread wherein it was begged that she reveal the sources of her degrees and share her acumen in theological subjects.

Frankly I'm going to side up with Levicoff on this one. Listing profs as docs but not from where is a red flag. No Adelheid, there is nothing wrong in religious instruction for personal reasons. But the stated purpose of this school is to prepare one for ministry. Perhaps GAAP programs are not always required for ministerial qualifications, but the equivalencies of such programs in terms of rigor and extent should be required because the subject deserves and demands such.

Those who represent themselves as pastor or reverend or bishop or Dr. having these qualifications as effects of incapacious education are either in this for less than scrupulous purposes or they simply do not understand what is involved in attaining such titles in an above board manner. But either reason compares badly with the honesty and accomplishment urged in the New Testament for all and particularly for church leaders. I think a story is in order:

In the 1960s I attended a church in San Diego. There was among the congreants a Mr. Withey. He fancied himself an dispensational expert in that portion of Systematic Theology and those Scriptural portions which concern Eschatology--the doctrine of the last things. Withey was 5' 2'' and his wife was 6' 2'' and I've wondered if this difference spurred Withey onward to insist upon his eschatological erudition. Regardless, Withey who had no BA enrolled in a distance Ed doc program and sure enough within a month or two had his ThD. Thereafter he insisted on being called" Dr." Wisely his wife besides always wearing flats also on every possible occasion referred to her spouse as "the doctor."

I resolved never to be neither a Withey nor a half withey!

I say let Levicoff sharpen his sword and drive out the Perizzites and Jebusites from the ranks of theological academe even if it requires ire and rancor.

 

Unk, the LCMS liberal? I suppose that the Wisc. Synod may consider them problematic but they are actually a conservative group. The LCMS is the 2nd largest Lutheran body, the ELCA being the first. The ELCA is the liberal Lutheran body. The LCMS insulted the ELCA recently by stating something to the effect that because of the ELCA's liberal theological stances the LCMS could no longer consider them an orthodox lutheran body.

In all seriousness the LCMS is conservative. In some areas I found this too be good (reverence for scripture) but in other areas they are ridiculously legalistic. Factions within have twice brought pastors up on charges (one being their President) for participating in public prayer with our Pastors (after 9-11). They do not believe in particpation/pulpit fellowship with those who are not LCMS. One pastor got himself in trouble for co officiating at the wedding of his neice along with his brother who was ELCA. President Barry (previous President) insisted on a public apology and then did not feel it was strong enough. There was a church with a female Director of Religious Education who used to sit on the steps of the altar area to do the children's message and the Elders got upset. A female butt on the steps is one step away from the altar itself (so the philosophy went). There was also a serious proposal to have a sort of "theological police" (my terminology) to travel around the synod and sit in on services to ensure orthodoxy.


North

 

Not long ago Bill was somewhat offended by certain Levicoffian analogies, ire and rancor--even to the point of leaving DegreeInfo. Now he embraces such "sword sharpening" and the "driving out" of certain "ites" from among us?

This sounds much like the tactics of Calvin so long ago in Geneva. If the pagans don't agree with us--Kill Them, Purge Them From Our Ranks, and use whatever methods are necessary to do so. After all, the end justifies the means doesn't it?

 

Re: levicoff

Rafael, your critique is taken in good spirit. Of course I'm a rude, arrogant SOB - that's my nature. And, I assure you, it's a lot of fun. Besides, I do it to irk Bill and Russell.

Nonetheless, I must admit my surprise at Bill's agreement with e on this one to a degree. And have to admit, as well, that I am intentionally impatient with adelheid. Although he is obviously not an idiot, I submit that he is acting like one. The comparison to Jimmy Clifton is accurate - like Jimmy, who always inquired about degree mills as if he were siply wondering about them, adelheid's effect is simply to publicize the mills. The only difference I see is that Jimmy is involved with operating at least one ordination mill, while adelheid has not demonstrated such involvement. Yet.

My only regret is that I let Janko slide on his comment about the LCMS. I almost fell on the floor laughing when he referred to them as liberal, so I'm delighted that North called him on it.

Your diatribe was most welcome, Rafael. An welcome, belatedly, to degreeinfo.com. When you've seen as many mills as some of us have seen - along with the effects the mills have on both students and the public, you'll begin to understand the rudeness. And the warped humor one develops about them.

Now, let's talk about one of your own degrees being from a Churches of Christ school . . .

 

Re: Re: levicoff

C'mon Steve, we all know that your warped sense of humor developed WAY before your involvement with DL, degree mills, etc.

In addition, (to adelheid) when you're perceived as ALWAYS looking for the shortcut, you've got to expect to take some shit.
Jack

 

Re: Re: levicoff

OK, now... thats a little below the belt...

You should know (seeing as you are all-knowing and all ) that most members of the Church of Christ barely recognize that Pepperdine is a CoC school. They are way out there in California and are all liberal.

Plus, I am sure that Pepperdine has the lowest CoC student body of all CoC universities (thats my guess, no evidence).

But don't they have a pretty good basketball team?

oh yes, this was intended to have humor and yes, I am a member of Churches of Christ..

clint

 

........................



This is a perplexing and personally troubling post by Russell.

His referent in the first paragraph is to an occasion where I was offended by Levicoff's (said to be) joking curse laden and sexual innuendo filled (which I took to be a) personal attack on me. That occasion had nothing at all to do with misrepresenting academic qualifications or running substandard degree programs. But these are exactly my topic as any reasonablel look at my post here would clearly see . The Jebusites referent pertains to those who make false academic claims as Dr trudy, Dr withey, {NOT to Adelheid}, and also to schools which offer degrees for little or no effort. Levicoff chided Adelheid's inquiry as idiotic. Adelheid later admits that a little observation reveals the school to be unworthy. Levicoff did not abuse personally Adelheid with profanity. Therefore, there are significant differences ignored by Russell between these two threads both as to the object or purpose of Levicoff's attention and to the language which he employs to make his point. To equate the two threads, therefore, and then to elicit from that false comparison a supposed inconsistency in my thinking or reactions , is not worthy of the reasoning processes I confident Russell is able to utilize. I am disappointed he did not here.

Russell's second paragraph pounces on my metaphor from Joshua with a hyper literalistic application to a degree beyond which, I think, I've ever before seen. It is hardly sane even in a grammatico-historical scheme of interpretation. He connects my symbol meant to referent Levicoff's verbal attempts in such as NIFI and on this board of purging theological academe from unworthy, shabby ,and deceitful programs and schools to concoct instead my approbation of really, actually going out an slaying people for their religious convictions which are contrary to my beliefs. Again, I know Russell's hermeneutical skills enable him to reach a more reasonable conclusion than this!

Not all ends, Russell, justify all means... The twisting (the means) a poster's clear intent to make him appear inconsistent ( the end) is not justified.

Were this a regular practice on this board I would leave, but it is not the customary intellectually honesty I've come here to value.

:

 

I actually thought this post was telling because it reflects how founding members of degreeinfo (like Steve) may feel frustrated with those who have spent a lot of time on the forum but don't really use it proactively.

Another way of putting it is that Steve values the forum, and he didn't feel that adelheid did, at least, when reading the above post.

If people who become "senior members" don't value the forum enough to keep from clouding it with useless and purposeless quesitons then the forum will eventually become diluted and useless, at least, for the founding "senior members." I understand why he would he would be angry.

All of us have learned a great deal from the purposeful content expressed here. Let's try to keep it that way.

Chris

 

Well,let's see:

the president of the denomination is answerable to no one for his doctrinal views
compulsory ecumenical services are sponsored by many districts of the LCMS
political materials are handed out and voting for particular parties made tests of Christianity
decision-for-Christ generic evangelical propaganda officially endorsed
belief in the true presence of the body and blood of Christ in, with, and under the elements of bread and wine in the Lord's Supper/Mass not enforced upon LCMS clergy
participation in scouting encouraged by high-pressure tactics
validity of lay absolution denied
pastor of local church portrayed as controlling access to grace of God
unscriptural hierarchicalism
tolerance of anti-patriotic and anti-Semitic publications by LCMS clergy
women in roles of theological and administrative supervision in parishes
common claim that only LCMS can convey "valid" ordination
denial that the papacy is the antichrist
persecution of many who use traditional Lutheran liturgy
official endorsement of Bill Hybels, John Maxwell, and other luminaries of the "church growth"
movement
refusal to discipline those who make glossolalia and other aspects of the charismatic movement tests of faith and/or fitness for public ministry
clergy denouncing supervised vicars for reading Pieper
clergy boasting of never reading the Book of Concord
Lutheran confessions taught as pertaining to clergy alone
endorsement of religious right politics instead of maintaining "two kingdoms" doctrine
syncretistic worship services accepted
...and the list could go on...

Now, perhaps sub specie aeternitatis none of these things matter. But they ain't confessional Lutheran--they're marks of a liberal church body with Lutheran origins.

My apologies to the evangelicals and pentecostals who post here. I don't doubt your sincerity (or your salvation). Bill, Vladika Russell, and others, I have no quarrel with you, whatever our doctrinal differences--you and I alike believe in truth in theological advertising! When we get to heaven, all our differences will be sorted out sufficiently for our eternal bliss. In the meantime, "Let us love one another."

However odd it might seem, though, I would assert that mere belief in biblical inerrancy doth not a conservative confessional Lutheran make. From where the Carpathian peasant sits, inerrancy alone is no substitute for quia subscription to the confessions of the Evangelical Lutheran movement--on the part of any individual or church body claiming to be authentically Lutheran. Political conservatism is no substitute for doctrinal rigor, and legalism is not consistent with confessional Lutheranism; both reflect a liberal desire to substitute man's achieved holiness for the scandal of the cross.

Truth in advertising!

 

Yes, Unk, yes. But what do you think is wrong with them?

 

Upon reading adelheid's post last night, I began to respond with this:

"In the words of Dr Levicoff - "All together now . . .


Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha! "

However, as I previewed my post, I noted Steve had already responded (with a great deal of restraint in my opinion). I no longer saw a need to post. Needless to say, Steve's post was timely and correct.

 

Re: Re: Re: levicoff

Actually, Clint, I have nothing at all against the Churches of Christ, except for thehir incessant insistance that they are not a denomination and their over-emphasis on baptismal regeneration.

In fact, the Christian Churches/Churches of Christ are among the early leaders in nontraditional degree programs through schools like Johnson Bible College, Lincoln Christian College, and Kentucky Christian (which had one of the first credible nontraditional M.Min. programs available). The downside, of course, is that some mickey-mouse schools (like one of the Summit degree mills) have claimed CofC affiliations, and there is little available in the way of quality controls to prevent this.

Pepperdine is, of course, one of their liberal schools. And, even more important than a good hoops team, they have Ben Stein as a law professor (as well as F. LaGard Smith, editor of The Chronological Bible and one of the first evangelical authors to address clergy sexual abuse issues).

Now, if y'all could address the absence of musical instruments in your services, especially considering that the most well-known member of the Churches of Christ is Amy Grant . . .