EdD and/or PhD: Perhaps I am Jealous

Perhaps some enlightened sage can help me figure this one out. If the educational community controls which doctorates are offered via distance education, why do they not provide more programs other than in the field of education? I am not aware of any other profession which gets 6 - 12 weeks off during the summer (which incidently allows residency completion in most programs that I have researched). Is it me, or does this seem like a conspiracy of sorts~~ allow educators the opportunity to seek advanced degrees (Educational Leadership, Administration, etc..), and deny persons in other fields equal access to higher education? Maybe I am just frustrated about this, and concerned about the acceptance of a research based (e.g. UK, UNISA, Australian) degree in the United States. Am I alone?

 

I like a conspiracy theory as much as the next guy (OK, probably more than the next guy) and I won't claim to be "enlightened," but I think I might have an answer for you. When you look at ALL the degree programs that are offered, you do indeed see a pattern. Lots of business degrees, lots of education degrees, lots of IT/computer degrees. Sure, there are others, but mostly the degrees offered are the ones that will sell, and these degree programs sell because they are the ones that result in employment for the degree holder. Higher education is an industry that sells a product and just like the stores that sell the latest fashions, colleges sell what people want to buy. For example, you can't get a PhD in Philosophy in the Rhode Island state education system. It's not offered because there aren't enough people buying to make the program worth offering. So, if it's a conspiracy you're looking for then look toward the US market economy. People want those education degrees because they like the jobs that wait for them at the other end of the degree program (you know, those jobs you mentioned with the big Summer vacations.) BTW, in regards to your "equal access" issue, I'm reminded of something that Henry Ford said about peoples color preferences for his early automobiles, "They can have any color they want, as long as it's black." You have access to the school, to an education, but your idea that all degree programs have to be offered in equal numbers is a bit silly and if you think about it you'll see that you wouldn't really want that to happen. Your taxes would go sky-high (as if they're not already) and the country would be full of unemployed people (more of your tax money gone).
Jack

 

Thanks Jack: Your comments have merit. I did not intend to infer that all degrees should be offered via DL, for me it appears that there is a lack of choices for the individual who desires a PhD in other than money making professions. It strikes me as odd at best that those in charge of making the decisions on which DL degrees to offer seem to only help themselves. My spouse has one of those fabulous positions that I mentioned! (smile) Do you think that the situation in this country will ever change?

 

The education system is a very closed system. You can be incompetent and have a degree in education (I am not saying all people with degrees in education are incompetent) and be allowed to teach. But unless you have a degree in education you cannot teach...........At one point I attempted to enter the education system...with a Bachelors in Accounting, a Bachelors in Sociology, and a MBA and a MA in Counseling I thought there might be a possibility that I could teach accounting, economics, sociology, and work in a counseling role. No way, you must have a degree in education. The fact that I had experience at a junior college and a university was immaterial. A friend, a PhD chemist, tried the same thing. He retired at 50 and wanted to teach high school....no way, a man with a PhD in chemistry and over 20 years experience in research at one of Alabama's best known research facilities was told that if he would go back to school and get a BS in education he could teach. He asked how much chemistry was required to teach....9 semester hours.....so, no wonder our high school graduates are not up to speed with the rest of the world. If you have a PhD in a subject you can't teach, but if you have a BS in Education with 9 hours in a field you can teach. YEAH!!!!!!!!

 

very true.

Jack's comments are very true. As Bill Dayson has pointed out to me in an earlier post, why are there more than 200 MBA programs via DL and only one (and trust me, i have looked far and wide) MA in English Lit. from an American school via DL???

By the way, it took me six months to find that one MA. That is, an MA in English that is not:

via dissertation/thesis only
via a non-american school
via a non-accredited school
via a customized learning program

But there is one. So keep looking for whatever you want. And don't make any big decisions until Bear's guide comes out in January.

Chris

 

I realize the problem that is caused by the way degrees are offered. However, there are ways to make the programs work for you. For example, I am a rehabilitation counsleor and vocational evaluator by profession. Most of my recent work has been at the state leadership level. When I went to do my doctorate, there were no local programs in rehabilitation and the psychology/counsleing programs would have eventually required me to quit work. Ulitmately I went into an Ed.D. Program in Occupational and Adult Education. The same program had options in Human Resource Development and Vocational Technical Education. All of my papers, all of my research, and ultimately my dissertation were on rehabilitation related subjects. I have had several opportunities to teach rehabilitation at the graduate level. A collegue in the same program did his Ed.D. in HRD. He had an MBA in finance and a BBA in administration. However, he had operated his own construction company for more than 20 years. What does he do now? He is the department head and tenured associate professor in construction science (inside the engineering school) at a major university.

Another alternative is to look fo university doctorates in higher education or in university teaching. Often these are Ed.D. programs where you can major in the subject of your choice, but you have to take a certain number of "higher ed" courses. The bottom line is you still major in the field of your choice. Are these perfect options? NO! WIll they work? Absolutely!

 

Teaching Woes

It is interesting that more states are instituting an alternative format allowing teachers without education backgrounds to teach. As I understand the process in South Carolina and Georgia, a person may seek alternative credentialling by passing the PRAXIS I for entry and then passing the PRAXIS II in their respective field of interest in the first three years of employment.

Making a few telephone calls to South Carolina evinced interest in my MBA, specifically to teach Business Education. Most school districts, however, interpret the guidelines variously. The most noteworthy drawback was the abysmal starting salary for a teacher with a master's degree in hand. In South Carolina and Georgia, the salary levels out (although still very low) at the fifth year of employment.

Also interested in the EdD,
Steven King

 

I've often thought that distance education might be particularly well suited for obscure and low demand subjects.

Imagine a doctoral program in Old English, Assyriology or in Pali. Even most "top tier" research universities don't offer subjects like these. (One of the things that give Harvard and Berkeley their intellectual lustre is that they subsidize arcane programs like this, perhaps partly for prestige sake.) A student of these subjects has to physically travel to one of the two or three places they are offered. There simply isn't a critical mass of students and faculty anywhere else.

But suppose that you could create a virtual community of scholars from around the world interested in these things. While there might not be enough people in Reno Nevada or Sudbury Ontario to justify a doctoral program in one of these subjects, there certainly would be if you could somehow gather together all the relatively isolated scholars worldwide.

This is doubly true for humanities subjects in which job prospects are grim. If a student has little chance of landing a suitable teaching position, is it worthwhile for him or her to move to a strange city and live as a starving student for the better part of ten years? But what option do they have if the only alternative that they are given is permanantly turning their back on the subject that they love?

Distance education would seem to be a godsend in these kind of situations, if only educational administrators could see it.

 

I asked a dean at a university where I was adjunct about a program and was told that the mission of the college depended upon the margin and "where there is no margin there is no mission." So, if you want a program, get enough people together with the $$$$$$'s and the program will almost be guaranteed. Endow a chair and the "almost" can be eliminated.

 

If I could afford to endow a chair, then I could also afford to sit as a student and not work. I shall continue my quest to find a suitable program in the U.S. or Canada, and when I am successful, I shall inform the group.

 

Have you tried the University of Nebraska at Lincoln? I believe the residency is negotiable.

 

Sorry, Harijan, I haven't checked your profile and so I don't know your location. In the part of the world where I live (USA, Western Hemispere) people frequently act in a manner that most benefits their own self-interest. Is it substantially different where you live?
Jack

 

Howard - Once again we agree. I learned this lesson in the healthcare industry when, all of a sudden, services that were once standard were now "unnecessary." I actually bet that what you've proposed might work ... if you got together some group of people who were interested in a specific academic area, and made a proposal to a school, they might offer a degree program for those people (especially if there was some substantial indication that the program would be "populated" well into the future). The degree to which it might draw upon already existing resources would undoubtedly aid in its inception.
Jack

 

Is it substantially different where you live?

Not really Jack. In South Carolina we have one law school in our capitol city. Each university is allowed to teach certain subjects beyond the baccalaureate. For example, the Master of Public Administration program is offered in a joint venture between Clemson (the agriculture school) and Univ of SC. The EdD, which is in Curriculum and Technology instruction is offered at Clemson, and USC offers it and the EdD in Counseling Education, Social Work, etcetera..... Despite several attempts by the populous to change things, the legislature does not change anything, citing that to do so would reduce the mighty research monies going to a particular university and weaken the overall effectiveness and reputation of a said school.

Me thinks that what is really worse, is that we allow this to occur, and then fight for pay raises, and new schools for our educators. The ones that really help themselves. I suppose that we should develop a strong DL lobby to promote it more in this country.

 

Bill Dayson's reply is interesting: that the internet/distance learning can provide the means to join people together, even if their interests are obscure.

However, getting an accredited institution to stand behind the effort and offer a degree by distance learning is another thing. If they can't make money on the venture (or at least think they can), then it won't happen. So others are right when they say this is the reason for so many business/IT offerings. There is a huge market for these courses because of the perceived usefulness of the degrees in the job market. Likewise, schools are eager to offer these programs for the potential revenue.

The nth degree of this (although yet to be offered in fully DL mode - but just wait) is the executive mba's being offered jointly by top business schools: Berkeley-Columbia, Columbia-LBS etc. The price tag for these is typically $100,000+. Ridiculous!

Also, on the teaching front, here in CA, it is certainly possible to teach with a PhD. Many private schools will gladly take a PhD in the appropriate subject. Most of the public schools want credentialed teachers (or at least enrolled in a credential program), but this is 1 year or so of study - certainly not a full degree in education. To get the credential you also need to satisfy Subject Matter Competency, which is satisfied by either college coursework (no problem if you have a PhD in the subject) or by passing the Praxis exams.

Tom57

 

However, the issuance of emergency credentials is quickly going away. President Bush's "No Child Left Behind" initiative is seeing to that. This is probably fine in most academic areas, but will create a real bind where emergency credentials are most needed (special education, math, science, bilingual education).

As to the overall topic, having a Ph.D. and being able to convey that knowledge at the level of your average 15-year-old are two very different things. When I taught credential classes, I had 3 or 4 people with doctorates and they invariably had the most difficulty in the courses. It's not just about subject knowledge. It's also about the transmission of that subject knowledge. Often people who have studied a field so intensely have difficulty in ratcheting it back to an understandable level for human beings.


Tom Nixon

 

I agree completely. I am teaching math after 17 years in the corporate world. Not surprisingly, I guess, a math degree and graduate work in math is not of much importance right now. I am completely consumed with classroom management and organizing lessons that make sense to students. I have bombed entirely on a number of occassions by making lectures too theoretical (the kind I would like to have if I were a student). I think, ultimately, more subject knowledge will help rather than hurt, but there is a lot more to the craft of teaching, as I am quickly realizing.

Tom57

 

Actually, modern cognitive learning theory holds that for the most part knowledge is not transmitted, it is constructed. Teachers serve as guides as opposed to the transmitters of knowledge. In reality this takes a lot more skill on the part of the teacher than less effective traditional approaches.

Research indicates that lecture is the least desirable teaching strategy as measured by student retention of subject matter.

 

I would really recommend reading some of the material by Stephen Brookfield about crititcal thinking in the teaching process. I would also recommend many of the articles by Gary Conti on teaching style. These authors help describe a teaching process that is learner centered and not lecture centered. Most of this is in adult education philosophy and theory, but very helpful when teaching.

An interesting point...I have a master's degree in education and a doctorate in education, but am not considered qualified to teach at the high school level.