I just got fried by a prof. for applying to a distance ed school...

Right now, I feel like I just had the wind taken out of my sail...

I'm applying to Capella to their Ph.D. in Psychology (Family Psychology emphasis).

I asked one of my main Masters degree profs for a recommendation. He said he would be glad to but proceeded to challenge me to reconsider. He mentioned things such as:

• "Distance ed schools not looked on favorably by residential schools."
  
• "If no licensure is obtained at doctoral level, it is a waste of time."
  My reason for the degree is for credentials, marketing/positioning, and influence. An APA degree route would take me another 4-6 years on top of my Masters that already qualifies me for state licensure.
  
• "If all that the school requires is a simple recommendation (no forms to fill) that makes me suspicious and distrustful of the program." He was referring to Capella's requirement of two short paragraph recommendations as part of application versus the more elaborate forms with more documentation from typical admissions departments.

To say the least, I have been very excited and looking forward to doing work at Capella after looking at Saybrook, Fielding, Union, Walden, and others. Tell me guys, whether this is what I'm going to find out consistently or is this just an island of an experience...?

 

Not an island, I'd say it's more of a peninsula.
Jack

 

Blackbird,

Obviously, no one can guarantee with absolute certainty future outcomes in relation to employment opportunities and licensure relating to obtaining a doctorate through a distance learning program.

However, many academic traditionalists will provide generalized negative advise that may not pertain to individuals such as yourself.

I would suggest that you conduct a needs assessment relative to your specific needs and goals prior to making a final decision as follows:

1) Does the doctoral program in Family Psychology specialization meet the state board requirements for licensure in the state in which you reside?

2) Have you verified this information with the state board?

3) Will the fact that this program is not APA accredited adversely affect YOUR opportunities for employment and professional advancement?

4) Is your primary goal to engage in private practice, to work in private, state, federal hospitals and agencies, to teach in academia or to write professionally?

5) Do YOU feel comfortable with the format and method of distance learning at Capella, and is it congruent with your style of learning? Are you confident in the academic credentials of the faculty as well as your belief that they will assist you in attaining your academic goals?

6) Will this degree provide you with the independence that you previously noted was a significant factor in your considering completing a doctorate?

It is important to be mindful that Capella is a for- profit institution and this fact has resulted in their de-emphasis on substantial recommendations for admissions. This does not necessarily reflect negatively on the school or its students. A number of admitted students who initially believed that the "easy" admission criteria was prognostic of an easy educational experience will drop out shortly after commencing their studies.

Capella, and similar institutions' rationale is to give many prospective students an opportunity to attend and participate in a doctoral level Psychology program that would generally not be available academically to most applicants due to the high level of competition required by traditional schools.

There are many other issues that would be helpful to clarify prior to precluding Capella as a viable educational option. Feel free to brainstorm any barriers that you believe may serve as an impediment to your realizing your future goals.

Simon

 

Just to add my 2 cents to what Simon said: Capella is a lot easier to get into that out of.........so it dangles, who cares? Can you believe there is not a cents symbol on my keyboard? What is this world coming to?

 

Blackbird,

As an adendum to my previous e-mail, in making a determination as to whether nontraditional distance education is in one's best interest, it is important to keep in mind that there will be a myriad number of disparate opinions and ideas presented by mentors, friends, colleagues and family.

The bottomline is that each of us needs to attend carefully to this feedback and not summarily disregard this data, solicited or otherwise. However, at the end of the day, regardless of the title or prestige of the individual (s) who may disagree with alternative educational programs, each of us has to decide through processing the positives and negatives, whether nontraditional degrees will meet OUR anticipated expectations, needs and goals. No professor, friend or "experts" can make this decision for us due obviously to the fact that we, not they, will be living with the decision and choices we make.

So although well intended, advise should be accepted with appreciation but with a mindfulness that it is anothers' perspective, that may be relative and consonant with their interests, needs, values and beliefs but may not be parallel with ours.

Good luck,

Simon

 

Very true! One should also keep in mind that DL is an ever evolving methodology, with perceptions/opinions evolving as well. For example, growing up in the 70's I would hear comments about earning a degree via "night school." This was perceived by some as a less-than-credible route to a degree. But why? If one has the same coursework, the same professor, the same course requirements, a class of peers, what does it matter whether one is on class from 8:00-2:00 (day) or 6:00-10:00 (night). I guess students were perceived to be more alert during the day.

Much of the stigmatic response from B/M traditionalists is based more on perception than factual data. As has been stated, expect that some will have negative opinions, but if it meets your objectives--DO IT!

 

As one asked to write a lot of recommendation letters, I feel strongly that the open-ended "write a few paragraphs" is much preferable to the more common "check boxes" in some elaborate grid, where many desirable traits need to be checked as "always" "usually" etc.

The Capella approach requires more effort for the writer, and, I think, is more likely to be helpful for the reader.

 

Profs are just like any other group of people---there may be as many (slightly) different opinions as there are profs.

Just treat that prof's opinion as one of many & seek other opinions (including those offered in this forum).

FWIW, I lurked on this site & it's predecessor for nearly 2 years before I selected a DL program for my masters. It takes a lot of sifting, but there are some nuggets here.

Bill Hurd
DL MBA Baker College

 

I don't know about the other schools, but I've heard from other sources that Capella makes you work your a** off....waaay off.

-S

 

Yep, they do!!!!!!!!! And it is not just grunt work, it must be quality work...........

 

This is a common response to DL in academia

What Blackbird experienced is a common reaction to distance learning from someone in academia. Call it educational snobbery or whatever you prefer but it is a common reaction to DL. A vast majority of professors at RA brick and motar schools have their PhD's from traditional schools and they do look down upon DL schools, their curriculum and graduates. It may not be right, it may not even be warranted, but it happens on a consistent basis and people need to be aware of the fact. It is great to have a forum where retirees from around the globe trade stories of how they "earned" their latest and greatest degrees from some unaccredited degree mill housed on an island with with no educational regulations. But for a young person who still has to worry about peopels perceptions and opinions about his/her educational background most of the DL programs discussed on this site would not be well advised because of their reputations. I you are old, independently wealthy and bored go after that unaccredited online Phd you have always wanted, but realize that when you do no work and learn less than nothing that the degree will be worth about what you put into it. It often makes me wonder if the same people who are touting these degrees on these boards are not the same one using premade certificates from Office Depot to send to their students. There has to be some connection, if not I fear for the future of our nation. The whole something for nothing mentality of this forum really concerns me.

 

Blackbird, its back too you. Which approach or school have you decided on, that is after you have done the usual checking, including all of the comments and suggestions from this board (10 replies that is) for you and you Beatle compatriates? (great photo)

J.R(ic)

 

Re: This is a common response to DL in academia

 

Re: This is a common response to DL in academia

Just wanna make sure we're clear on this particular thread - Capella is a regionally accredited school (NCA). It also states that its program was designed with eventual APA approval as a goal. (It's continuing education offerings are already APA approved).

The point 'today's view toward DL vs. 20 years ago view of night school' is a very good observation.

GME - who is considering Capella after completing a trad master's in psychology.

 

Re: This is a common response to DL in academia

Jeff, your post is very confusing to me - perhaps you thought that you were posting on a different forum? "Most of the DL programs discussed on this site," or at least those that are recommended by posters on this site, are NOT unaccredited, as you seem to be implying. In fact, there have been complaints that there is a heavy bias on this forum against unaccredited schools/degrees, and there was even an entirely new forum started (on a different site) to provide an environment for people who are interested in that sort of thing. Perhaps you could clarify the intent of your post? I was with you for the first four sentences, but then you shifted your focus to mischaracterization (IMO) of this forum...

 

Of course, a good percentage of residential schools offer distance degrees themselves.

One thing to keep in mind here is that for many university professors, their Ph.D. is part of their identity, it's what makes them special. I think that's why there is so often a 'rite of passage' aspect to earning one of these degrees. If they think that you aren't going through exactly what they went through, they might not react well.

But your professor might have a valid point too. Distance graduate programs may be adaquate and they may give their students the opportunity to do good work, but they lack a lot of what exists on campus. I can't really think of any DL doctoral program that has a reputation at the forefront of its field. None are intellectual leaders. There may be an exception or two, but they are rare.

So your professor may think that you can do better.

Again, if you are interested in positioning and influence in the academic world, a big-time research program might be more valuable.

I don't think that this objection is substantial.

I guess that it's a matter of trade-offs. You might be best advised to forget DL and go for the best on-campus program you can get into. On the other hand, spending years living hand to mouth as a full-time doctoral student might be overkill, given your particular needs.

Your professor may be uncomfortable that you are trading away the route that he apparently chose for himself.

 

Capella is not harvard for sure, neither university of Idaho or Colorado State. You will get the same kind of comments from snobby professors about any low tier university. However, there is evidence of acceptability of Capella's PhD at some universities. I found an academic working in Canada with PhD from capella and few others:

http://www.mba.athabascau.ca/titan/aucimwebsite.nsf/AllDoc/7FD92BFCDFFAFE7287256B7B006E100D?OpenDocument

http://www.apus.edu/AMU/Undergraduate/uprofessors.asp

 

There are those profs who will react negatively to the idea of distance learning (independent study) even though most learning probably takes place outside the class in terms of research for papers, dissertation, etc. I have pointed out here before that I know two relatively young PhD's who were not at all happy by the idea of DL Ph'D's. One looked ill at the mention of it and another said "Oh, so you basically buy the degree". They were grads of top schools (one Texas A&M and the other Cornell).

My take on the issue is that if you want a doctorate, you should seek to earn an accredited (foreign equivalent of) doctorate. You should do it in a field you are interested in. You should find one that will best meet your needs based on your present and future (as best as you can assess) circumstances. For many people this means that taking all factors into account a distance learning doctorate will meet their needs or is the best possible way to achieve their goals under whatever cirumstances they are in. At that point I would not worry about the negative perceptions of some, having factored that into my decision. Bottom line is that you will have an accredited doctorate. Not everyone can go residential and slave away as a grad assistant under some PhD for several years. I am earning an accredited doctorate in Christian Counseling without regard to whether it will necessarily help me professionally (although it certainly may). I am enjoying the learning process and quite happy with my decision. If I had my choice I might prefer to be studying full time at Fuller University but that is not an option and I am fine with that reality.

You willl find that there is always something to criticize. If you went to a lesser state or private college that could be a source of criticism. I have seen PhD's look down on EdD.'s, etc, etc. I knew a young psychologist in the army who when I mentioned the DL Fielding Institute (APA approved) acted like I had mentioned California Coast or Kennedy Western.

North

 

Re: This is a common response to DL in academia

Is Jeff reading the same forum as the rest of us? C'mon administrators, stop playing mind games with Jeff. Let him see the posts that the rest of us see.
Jack

 

Re: This is a common response to DL in academia

What Forum are you referring to??? Certainly not this one. As a number of folks have pointed out your comments are not reflective at all of this Forum. Most posting here who are earning doctorates are doing accredited doctorates of one sort or another (RA or Nationally Accredited or Foreign Equivalent) and the ages vary. I am a Gen Xer. Very few here are looking for something for nothing. Those plugging away at doctorates have been or will be plugging away for some time. Mills are not touted here and people try to disuade those wanting milled or even unaccredited degrees in favor of accredited/equivalent options.

Perhaps you ought to post and explain your confusing statements.

North