ThD/PhD - Is this negotiable?

I recently contacted a S. African school and expressed interest in a D.Phil with a concentration in practical theology or missiology. However, I was referred back to a prof who said he would gladly take me in for the ThD in missiology.

Since I'm primarily interested in a PhD (or D.Phil), is this something I can work out with the ThD prof? Or must I settle with the ThD If I want to stay with this school and my proposed doctoral thesis?

Roscoe

 

Schools that offer both a DPhil/DLitt et Phil and a ThD in missiology should be willing to let you have your choice of the two, and let you tailor your research approach around the appropriate requirements.

Good luck!


Cheers,

 

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Hey Roscoe, I thought we were pals!!

 

At least one SA uni regards the ThD as "higher" than the PhD, because knowledge of the Biblical languages is required for the former but not for the latter. Look at it this way: there are not nearly as many snotty jokes and comments by ignoramuses about the ThD as there are about the PhD, at least NOT YET.

 

Thanks for all the replies. In a way, I think I'm being influenced by an earlier thread that suggested a PhD has more weight if one plans to teach in a secular school. Guess I just want to keep my options open.

Bill:
I heard from Prof. Song and he has welcomed me into the program at UNIZUL. I'm currently doing all the paperwork so I can get started and be officially enrolled. So, yes, we're still pals, even if I do go for the D.Phil.

Now this is scary: I've been talking with Jan of ACCS about enrolling in the D.Min. program. I've also put off getting married in case I go for two DL doctorates at the same time. If that should happen, Bill, we'd be brothers

Roscoe

 

This, Roscoe's predicament, is a little puzzling. One would expect some common norms among the SA Univs. But my description of programs for UnizulsFaculty of Theology and Religion Studies has different entry requirements for the DPhil than for the ThD. For the DPhil a masters (MA) is the prerequisite, but for the ThD a ThM is the prerequisite. The thM is a higher degree than the MA (twice as much language required in certain areas at UZ) and while UZ gives the DPhil , the ThD is termed "the highest degree." I believe the UZ DPhil can only be in "Biblical Studies."

Roscoe, that school did not say that you'd have to have a Thm to enter the ThD???

BTW, Got news this AM that a pal in Australia has been admitted to the UZ DPhil. We were "at" Trinity together!

 

Uncle J,

You make an interesting point. It never occurred to me that the ThD would be exalted above the PhD.

I can think of one author who gets a lot mileage from his ThD -- Tony Evans. Judging from his books and radio programs, he carries the title proudly. At the same time, it bugs me to hear people say, "He's the first black to graduate with a ThD from Dallas Theological Seminary."

It appears that the "first" designation gets more attention than his doctorate.

Roscoe

 

Bill,

Thanks for including the U.S. perspective on these two degrees. I'm starting to feel better about the ThD. But I still wonder about its use in a secular school.

BTW, just sent you a personal email.

Roscoe

 

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Got the email. Looks like UZ is letting you in with the MA. I'm jealous!

 

Bill,

As for Western Cape, they said they do not have any DL programs, despite the fact that they mention research degrees on their site. Since then I've learned that "research degrees" are not neccesarily DL, as they may require campus time.

Roscoe

 

Bill,

Once you've completed your two doctorates, you can write a book:

"Two Doctorates in Two Years," Or

"How to Earn Two Doctorates at the Same Time -- Guaranteed!" Or

"Earn Two Doctorates Without Ever Leaving Home: The Never-Before-Published Secrets of the Man Who Did It"


Just food for thought

Roscoe

 

Good luck Roscoe. Keep us up-to-date with your progress. By the way, where do you fall in the Calvinism - Arminianism-Open Theism discussion that has been going on in a light hearted manner. Keep in mind that there is only one biblical answer {GRIN}{GRIN}.

North

 

As a religious credential, the Th.D. is probably worth much, much more than the Ph.D.; nothing to be ashamed of, and you can always get a second doctorate later.


Cheers,

 

In the middle!

North,

A few years ago, when a reporter asked me where I stood politically, I said: "Right between Rush Limbaugh and Larry King."

At the risk of sounding like a side-stepping politician, I take a similar stand with regards to Calvinism and Arminianism: My theology is somewhere in the middle.

For over 20 years I was a die-hard Arminianist. But over the last three years, my theology has changed, prompting me to listen more to old Calvin (not the hyper kind, though). Whereas I once frowned at the TULIPS, I now smile.

The biggest issue for me, that prompted a dramatic change in my thinking, was eternal security.

Roscoe

 

Tom, Bill, Uncle J

Thanks for shedding so much light on this matter. You have certainly brought clarity to my thinking.

Wow! I didn't realize what I was being offered.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Roscoe

 

Depends on how "religious credential" is being defined, and on what criteria are being used to judge "worth", doesn't it?

Personally, I would strongly favor things like UC Santa Barbara's religious studies Ph.D. over most Th.D.s that I've seen. (I realize that's not Degreeinfo's thing, but it *is* religion...) If the goal is to study non-Christian religions, comparative or philosophical topics or to study religion as a social or historical phenomenon, I'd think that a Ph.D. might have distinct advantages over a Th.D. But that's probably less a matter of the degree title and more a matter of departmental orientation.

Of course, in Roscoe's case, where he's interested in practical theology or missiology, I agree that the Th.D. might be a better choice.

So I'd say that it's a matter of taste.

 

Agreed--I should have been more specific.

So would I, but I'd be inclined to consider it a secular credential in academic religious studies.

(Speaking of UCSB and religious studies: Have you had any luck getting on ANDERE-L? I applied months ago, with no success.)


Cheers,

 

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Hi Bill

It's also a matter of demand. You are right. It depends on what the doc holder is to teach AND where. If he/she is to teach comparative religion or even Christian apologetics the UC/SB degree might be the ticket. But for better or worse most seminaries have faculties in Old Testament, New Testament, Practics, and Systematic or Historical Theology and not much focus on non Christian religion. And when these seminaries advertise for profs they specify their wants.

Examples can be elicited from the ETS Newsletter in which seminaries list vacancies. For example in the Jan 2002 edition Biola Univ wants a PhD or ThD in Old Testament Studies and Edmonton Baptist Seminary wants a PhD or equivalent to teach "theology or historical theology."