An undergrad +Graduate degree in less than 4 years

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by John Roberts, Oct 30, 2002.

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  1. John Roberts

    John Roberts New Member

    This is about Peter Glaser, a reference piece posted by Lawrie Miller on his BA in 4 weeks site, that shows there are routes to Schooling, education and the credential other than through conventional path.

    http://geocities.com/BA_in_4_Weeks/peterglaeser.html

    The tale is about a run of the mill 21 year old Peter Glaser (not the mid 30's career pro) that has shown its all about delivering the goods in he getting a full Masters from Warwick business school (UK).

    EBS and the rest, beware, there may be a need for you to look at other ways to attract your clientele.

    J.R (ic)
     
  2. Professor Kennedy

    Professor Kennedy New Member

    Not competing for clientelle

    Warwick University is a top quality university and I have often recommended its MBA to students who ask about it on various web boards (I do not push EBS unless asked a direct question as EBS does not suit everybody and I prefer a reputation for disinterested advice in these matters).

    The bio of Peter Glaser is interesting but not remarkable. Many students of his ability go straight to a Masters from a Bachelors and graduate by 22 (I think it tight for 21 but do not exclude it). He is in finance and that suggests high numeric capability.

    EBS, however, is not competing with Warwick - a highly regarded campus university, though it has a small distance learning MBA product - as our pedagogies are different. Our large segment of the MBA distance market (soon to extend to Masters by distance and examination) is characterised by adult learners, post-30,already in middle to senior jobs, where circumstances (life, family, job, inclinations) suggest that the alternative to a distance MBA is no MBA. If they can get to a campus they will. If they can't they consider EBS.
     
  3. Lawrie Miller

    Lawrie Miller New Member


    Professor Kennedy on me, BA in 4 Weeks, and its ilk.in another post
    "People offering 'easy' routes to competence may be well intentioned, even saintly, but they do the people who 'buy' these schemes and invest their time and money in trying them no favours"


    Tell that to Peter.

    Lawrie Miller
    author: BA in 4 Weeks and Accelerated Master's Degrees by Distance Learning
    http://geocities.com/ba_in_4_weeks/
     
  4. Lawrie Miller

    Lawrie Miller New Member

    Indeed. The master's degree version of BA in 4 Weeks, "Accelerated Master's Degrees by Distance Learning", had the original working title, "Seven Weeks Study to an Accredited Master's degree". I dare say, that like BA in 4 Weeks, that work will elicit sneers and allegations from those who know better. In the meantime, learners will get on with doing. Something likely to give Gavin pause, is that one featured program will be the Heriot Watt MBA.

    Though I walk among the shadows of the tenured cognoscenti I shall fear no evil.


    Lawrie Miller
    author: BA in 4 Weeks and Accelerated Master's Degrees by Distance Learning
    http://geocities.com/ba_in_4_weeks/
     
  5. Professor Kennedy

    Professor Kennedy New Member

    Lies, damn lies and Lawrie's fudging

    Without a wish to re-ignite a dying ember, if Lawrie is asserting that anybody on this planet (or any other) can complete the EBS MBA in seven weeks, it amounts to a fraudulent statement if made by EBS (which it isn't) and a flight of fancy if made by Lawrie (which it might be, but I trust I have misread his 'joke').

    This dispute, for what it is worth, between us is that I am concerned with standards as the first priority of certification and not how 'cheap', 'easy' or its access to the most 'credits' there are in a programme.

    Lawrie keeps confusing this with me asserting that if a programme has some of these latter characteristics ('cheap', 'easy', 'most credits') it must have low standards. The proposition may be plausible in some cases but it was not my point.

    I am concerned that for some people (on this site and 'out there') they regard these latter characterisitcs as their criteria of choice between programmes and not standards, and that some people (not Lawrie) market programmes to appeal to them spending their dollars on their scams.

    Having to deal this week with one unfortunate guy who spent 24 months and thousands of dollars on a 'rubbish' 'MBA' and now finds he cannot get ajob with it, is heartbreaking. He was conned by some 'university' in the USA and has only now discovered the reality of 'degree mills'. Dealing with these case reguarly on other boards, is bad enough.

    But then dealing with other credible universities in the UK and North America, that appear to be sliding towards 'expensive' but 'easier' standards for their degree programmes, is in my view worse and therefore worrying. Hence, I hope I convey the determination of EBS not to join this general slide to 'dumbing down' and 'easy options' and I applaud all efforts by whomsover to maintain the integrity of their examinations.

    I would have thought Lawrie had a common interest in this approach and not see it as an opportunity to score points.
     
  6. Gary Rients

    Gary Rients New Member

    Re: Lies, damn lies and Lawrie's fudging

    Are you truly asserting that there cannot possibly exist anyone who could (either through an extraordinary amount of prior knowledge, or through sheer intellectual genius) pass the EBS MBA exams after only 7 weeks of study? I honestly find this incredibly hard to believe, and if that is your honest opinion then I am forced to conclude that it is a result of naivete regarding the capabilities of exceptional individuals. There really are people in this world who can absorb (and comprehend) an entire textbook in a matter of days, let alone the intelligent people who already have a firm grasp of the relevant material. It would be entertaining to see your jaw hit the floor if one of these individuals ever decided, on a lark, to prove you wrong. In order for me to really believe your claim, I would also have to believe that only a very small percentage of people are capable of passing the exams at all, regardless of study time. I don't intend to attack you, I am just truly amazed by your statement.

    You do have a valid point about considering standards (i.e. quality) as a top priority. I don't agree that everyone can (or should) necessarily do that, depending upon their circumstances and motivation, but it is a valid perspective. However, I would like to point out that people who limit their choices to schools that are regionally accredited (or equivalent) are already first filtering by minimal standards that have been verified by the accreditor, and are then considering other criteria.

    I don't want to take sides in your ongoing dispute with Lawrie, but I do recommend that you thoroughly review and understand the material on his site before issuing any criticism (direct or implied) of the approach. I get the feeling that maybe you just don't know what it's all about...
     
  7. Homer

    Homer New Member

    Re: Lies, damn lies and Lawrie's fudging

    The two foregoing statements require explication.

    I was under the impression that there was a generally accepted definition of "degree mill"; a school that requires very little (and perhaps more typically) no study and/or coursework to obtain a degree. I wouldn't think a school with an MBA program that took someone 24 months to complete would qualify as a "mill".

    Further, what, precisely, constitutes a "rubbish MBA"? If it's the fact that someone with such a degree can't get a job, then you can add Northwestern and Chicago to the list because I know people with MBAs from those institutions who also 'couldn't get jobs'. Might this not have more to do with the individual than the manner in which the institution is characterized?
     
  8. Lawrie Miller

    Lawrie Miller New Member

    Re: Lies, damn lies and Lawrie's fudging

    Important to read what is written, Gavin. Please parse my statement. I said the old title was 7 Weeks study to . . . I did not say . . 7 weeks to . . . I did not say "7 weeks to complete the HW MBA". It is the learning requirement that can be completed in that period. Not in all master's degrees, clearly, but certainly some. I know of no master's degree besides HW's MBA where the rules would allow an actual in and out, that fast. Minimum "seat" time I can find is 8 months. Again, the name of the work is now "Accelerated Master's Degrees by Distance Learning". Nowhere in my last note will you find a claim by me that the HW MBA can be completed from scratch in 7 weeks.

    However, there is absolutely no doubt that required revision could be completed by someone already appropriately versed in the discipline but simply lacking the credential. That is where demonstration of existing competencies comes into play.

    Take our well versed MBA candidate, give her 7 weeks to revise, prod the memory, become familiar with the quirks of this particular exam set. Are you saying that under such very plausible circumstances, our candidate could not successfully complete requirements for the degree come exam time? She could sit the exams over two diets. The study time she requires is seven weeks. The time to complete exams can be whatever. That is how requirements for a BA can be completed in 4 weeks, by the way.

    Possibilities lie along a continuum, where the controlling factors are, an appropriate existing knowledge based, native wit, and program material of quantity and type amenable to completion in the target time period (whatever that may be). The title of the master's guide is used as a vehicle to convey possibilities and to provide a convenient platform for exposition of methods and techniques. There is no requirement, imperative or implication in either title that every program be amenable to completing in that time period by a majority of candidates, or even by some candidates, but it is certain someone appropriately versed in the material, could revise sufficiently to successfully complete the HW MBA or other exam set. That is unarguable.

    When I wrote 7 weeks to an Accredited Master's Degree, I did not have HW in mind. The appropriate programs must be carefully chosen. However, now that you've got me animated about it, the possibilities it presents (HWMBA), like any other program, lie along a continuum. It is the perfect vehicle for those adequately prepared elsewhere, to revise then show their stuff. It is now going into my work precisely because of that. Some may benefit. There is no requirement to complete revision, or new study, in that period. It may take 14 weeks of study, or 20, or longer, but the notion that this is impossible is untenable.

    Gavin:
    This dispute, for what it is worth, between us is that I am concerned with standards as the first priority of certification and not how 'cheap', 'easy' or its access to the most 'credits' there are in a programme.

    Lawrie:
    No argument from me. However, it is 'cheap'and'convenient', not cheap and easy. There is no vice in searching for the most economical, efficient provider. I just don't buy the idea (not necessarily your position) that standards must fall or be of grave concern because timelines are truncated, and program costs minimized. It goes against every experience I've had, that's for sure. It is possible to so order one's time, in relation to existing knowledge and native wit, to maximize results and minimize effort. There is nothing moral, or good, or laudable, in working more than one has to, to achieve a desired result, in fact, to do so is asinine. I reckon in my stint in traditional college, I spent about 8% of the time on the work and 92% ot the time on the important stuff. That is a real figure, and that experience is shared by millions.

    It is certain that current practices and methods for imparting knowledge are grossly inefficient. BA in 4 Weeks demonstrates that to the point of embarrassment, but you guys have no shame! [maintain humor, if you will] The issue is not falling standards, it is why academia has remained so feckless for so long. That is what should give cause for concern. The old methods, old prejudices, and the old guard, need to go. "[Y]ou shall now give place to better men".


    Gavin:
    I am concerned that for some people (on this site and 'out there') they regard these latter characterisitcs as their criteria of choice between programmes and not standards

    Lawrie:
    Absolutely they do. You're right. Why would they do otherwise when the goal and the product is certification? If it is the case that most certificates (at same level) have more or less the same utility, they will take the one that requires the least outlay of resources of money, time, an effort. That is how it must be. It is Economics 101. However, in legitimate institutions, certification is supposed to certify genuine competence. If the holder is incompetent, yet is certified competent, the problem lies at the feet of the provider, not the holder.

    In the UK, standards are certified and conveyed in the first instance by the grant and maintenance of a Royal Charter, or by an act of parliament. The very title "University" is restricted in Britain. It implies certain minimum standards and conduct will be maintained by a state sanctioned, state endorsed, institution of higher learning. The public assumes, and has the right to expect, that regardless of pedagogy or time frames, those standards will be maintained. If they are not, well, perhaps the public response would be, "it's down to you guys. Fix it."

    Their primary interest is certification. This is market driven. They are required by employers to provide evidence of competence. That is achieved by certification (a degree). Again, their concern in "getting on", and certification is a necessary evil. For the most part the practical differences in utility are minimal. Sure it matters at the top end, but for most, whether their M.Eng. comes from U Paisley or Glasgow Caledonian, aint gonna make much of a difference. So gimme the degree and get out of the way. It is the Market at work and it is wondrous.

    Gavin:
    Having to deal this week with one unfortunate guy who spent 24 months and thousands of dollars on a 'rubbish' 'MBA' and now finds he cannot get ajob with it, is heartbreaking. He was conned by some 'university' in the USA and has only now discovered the reality of 'degree mills'. Dealing with these case reguarly on other boards, is bad enough.

    Lawrie:
    I agree, but of course, one cannot link the efficiencies driving the education industry, to degree mills. A more efficient enterprise does not generate degree mills. In fact, the opposite is likely true, as focus on the convenience of the customer replaces that of the convenience of the provider. Legitimate, convenient, lower priced products, will usurp that niche currently occupied by the mill. They will be squeezed. Many of the "near-mills" only exist because of inefficiencies in the market, anyway.


    Gavin:
    But then dealing with other credible universities in the UK and North America, that appear to be sliding towards 'expensive' but 'easier' standards for their degree programmes, is in my view worse and therefore worrying. Hence, I hope I convey the determination of EBS not to join this general slide to 'dumbing down' and 'easy options' and I applaud all efforts by whomsover to maintain the integrity of their examinations.

    Lawrie:
    Absolutely. I agree. My only regret is that for the effort required to earn it, the HWMBA does not receive the recognition is deserves. If you were to search AED usenet you would find my account of my boss' and colleagues reactions when I told them I was going to do the HW MBA back in 1995. It was so negative, I had to give up the idea, and I'd already paid for a course (including useless s/ware and such)!

    So it comes down to market forces. If a buyer can purchase another product (MBA program) with the same certification and the same or greater utility, for much less expenditure of time and effort (resources), they are going to do it. If an MBA from USC has twice the utility but requires only half the effort of the HW MBA, who would choose the latter (prices even)? These calculations are being made every day with respect to trade degrees like the MBA. The Market will be efficient. Buyer will do what is in their best interests, and for most that means securing a job, and maximizing income. If the consumer assesses HW MBA utility to be commensurate with its cost and the effort required to earn it, it will survive. If not, it will wither and EBS will change its tack.

    This is not about morality, or principles, or purity of purpose, and it certainly isn't about education. It is about the relative cost (money, time, effort) of utility. You don't pay twice the price or travel twice as far as you have to, to buy a pound of beans, that's silly. So, why should it be any different when I buy an MBA? They're both commodities after all.


    Lawrie Miller
    author: Accelerated Master's Degrees by Distance Learning
    http://geocities.com/ba_in_4_weeks
     
  9. Professor Kennedy

    Professor Kennedy New Member

    Lawrie. You have shown in your last post what you can achieve by reasoned argument. The 'abuse' counter showed 'zero'. Congratulations. I now understand what you are saying and broadly we are in agreement.

    Garry: of course if someone is already at the standard of any programme - extraordinarily well versed or otherwise - he or she could sit an examination and pass it. Somebody with an Honours degree in maths could sit our Quantitative Methods course and pass it without further study. To pass seven core subjects to that same standard he or she would either have just finished a separate MBA study programme or (possible?) seven equivalents of an ordinary Bachelor degree in each subject, or studied from de novo about 200 hours per subject. I think that eliminates all but an unknown set of people - in the normal distribution there may be somebody in the most outlying point but by definition the probability of them existing is remote. But I take your point about carelessly worded statements.

    I also take your point about 'rubbish MBA degrees' but in the cases I sometimes deal with these are real people, spending real dollars and getting ripped off by charlatans. I only hope there is a special corner of hell reserved for them and the just torments they should be made to suffer.
     
  10. Lawrie Miller

    Lawrie Miller New Member

    I think you mean convincing and unassailable argument. Clarity is the blessing of the righteous.

    Abuse counter, indeed. I invite you to consider your last but one missive to me. Not so much posted as disgorged.

    However.


    Lawrie Miller
    author: Accelerated Master's Degrees by Distance Learning
    http://geocities.com/ba_in_4_weeks
     
  11. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Re: Re: An undergrad +Graduate degree in less than 4 years

    My personal objection to "BA in 4 Weeks" has always been to its title and to the implied suggestion that one can earn a legitimate BA in a new subject with only 4 weeks study.

    I do think that an individual can turn existing knowledge in a subject that he or she is already very familiar with into university credit, and conceivably into a degree, in far less time than conventional degree programs take.

    In general, I am a strong supporter of prior learning assessment. I even support entire degrees by this method when the prior learning warrants it.

    I do have doubts about whether that occurs very often and about how large a proportion of the population would qualify for an entire degree by PLA.

    Even people enmeshed in a subject on the job will probably not be familiar with the range of their discipline or with all the underlying theory that supports it, Some new learning and study will probably be necessary even in most of their cases.

    I am also troubled by the possibility of examinations that one can pass without having any significant previous exposure to the subject. That exposure might range from having taken a class to personal interest and informal reading. But whatever, it would seem to be necessary.

    If it is possible to pass an examination in a subject in which you know no more than the average man on the street, then that's a reductio-ad-absurdem of university credit and comes very close to the definition of "degree mill".

    But if that isn't possible and if some study is necessary before the exam can successfully be passed, then I doubt very much whether one can earn a BA on one's own in just 4 weeks. The necessary study will take considerably longer than that.

    So my biggest objection is to the title "BA in 4 Weeks". If Lawrie gave his opus a less provocative title I'd have fewer reservations about it. But as it stands, the title is an invitation to caricature that doesn't really help to further the credibility of DL and PLA.
     
  12. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Re: Re: Lies, damn lies and Lawrie's fudging

    Didn't Gavin already say that to the best of his knowledge, nobody has been able to accomplish this in the history of the H-W MBA exams?

    Exceptional individuals have accomplished a lot of things. That's not the issue. The question is whether or not we can generalize from those individuals, and if so how we can do so responsibly.

    It might be possible to simply drop out of college, start a software firm and become the richest man on earth. But that doesn't imply that everyone should drop out of college.
     
  13. John Spies

    John Spies Member

    I found Lawrie Miller's site and decided to finally go for my degree. As of today, I have taken 24 tests and have passed every one (except English comp, will find out in a month or so from Excelsior) with mimimal study. I am not a 'smart guy' by any means, I just applied some common sense and some review of college textbooks bought at the used bookstore and took the test.
    I have 4 tests left and am very close to finally ( I am 39 years old) getting my degree. Say what you want about methodology, delivery, time spent, dollars, etc. etc.; but if it weren't for this board and Lawrie's site, I would not have done this.
    Because of this degree, I will be more able to get a better job and pay. Is it bad because I did not go to school for 4 years? Is the diploma less worthy as a result? I don't think so.
    Lastly, I am now in the process of choosing graduate school. Who would have thought? Not me, for sure.
    thanks everyone, try to take it easy on one another........I think we read this board because we all support distance learning???

    BTW: BA in 4 weeks? No, for me it will be 8 weeks to the day.
     
  14. John Roberts

    John Roberts New Member

    John S, well done and all the credits for a degree in 8 weeks only, for a whole bunch of subjects, is still very good.

    What did this exercise cost you?

    Moving forward, where are going for graduate studies?

    Keep us all informed.

    J.R (ic)
     
  15. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Let's assume that this was pursued like a full-time job.

    A bachelors degree typically takes something like 120 units. Assuming that an average university class is 3 units, that's 40 different classes.

    8 weeks x 5 days is 40 weekdays. That averages out to one class every day.

    Even assuming that somebody could sit the exams on weekends and devote each weekday to study and review, can one really be expected to learn a whole university subject to the expected standard in one day's worth of skimming a university text?

    Is this credible in advanced upper division courses in technical subjects?

    So I'd say that John is being exceedingly modest and is in fact a very 'smart guy', who also came into this with a lot of previous reading and experience that he isn't telling us about. In fact, he had already essentially completed the work necessary for a university degree and simply needed to do a quick review and to get the material certified.

    Or else he is undercutting the credibility of his own accomplishment by telling us this.
     
  16. John Spies

    John Spies Member

    John, I haven't calculated the cost, but it will be somewhere around $3500, I think. I will post again after calculating. Thank you for the kind words.

    Bill, you are right in that I have had training/skills/reading. I love to read! Recently, I completed 300 hours of work to receive my certification as a club manager and this required a lot of study and work experience. As a result, I had the ability to easily pass subjects like, Intro. to Managment, Supervision, Human Resources and the like. The beauty of Lawrie's program (for me) is that most of the coursework revolved around these subjects.

    Now, the American Government, History, etc. required a bit of study, mainly taking the tests in the CLEP books for example, and studying weak areas. Luckily, this worked.

    Lastly, I have to say that I am not a 'smart guy'. There are a lot of those on this board whom I would consider 'smart' from their writing and thought process. Professors, PhD's, MBA's, MA's, you name it, they are here and they are a lot 'smarter' than me. If Lawrie's degree program centered around mathematics, for example; I would not be nearing degree completion today! In fact, the subject I will study the most is math for the CLEP general exam; something that most of you would laugh at!!

    Anyway, I am happy that it is almost over and cannot wait to get started on a Masters degree. I have caught the distance-learning bug!!
     
  17. John Spies

    John Spies Member

    John Roberts,
    It is actually about $3800 total. Also, I am going to pursue either an MBA, MBA in Hospitality Management, of MSc in Hospitality. I am waiting for additional materials/information to make a decision, but I have narrowed my search to Heriot-Watt, Oxford Brookes, Sheffield/Hallam, UniSA/Cordon Bleu, and perhaps George Washington Univ. where I found an interesting MA in tourism administration. It sounds great, but I am not sure that it will apply very well to my industry.

    Any input re: these universities would be appreciated!! thanks
     
  18. Lawrie Miller

    Lawrie Miller New Member

    Re: Re: Re: An undergrad +Graduate degree in less than 4 years

    Bill likes to wind me up using this same issue, with the same assortment of egregious falsehoods and flawed logic, at least once each year. It has almost become a ritual. It is always the same. It is Groundhog Day.

    Bill Dayson:
    My personal objection to "BA in 4 Weeks" has always been to its title and to the implied suggestion that one can earn a legitimate BA in a new subject with only 4 weeks study.

    Lawrie:
    None such is implied. It says that existing compepetence can demonstrate that competence in 4 weeks. If you had read it, you would know that. There is incumbent on the reader (and the reviewer) a requirement to read at least the first paragraph of the work before reaching a conclusion. This distortion is easily disproved by quoting that first paragraph.

    Is Hugo's, "French in Three Months", similarly at fault? That is not a rhetorical question, I'd like to know. The difference is, with BA in 4 Weeks you really can complete requirements for a degree in a month.

    Bill:
    I do think that an individual can turn existing knowledge in a subject that he or she is already very familiar with into university credit, and conceivably into a degree, in far less time than conventional degree programs take.

    In general, I am a strong supporter of prior learning assessment. I even support entire degrees by this method when the prior learning warrants it.

    I do have doubts about whether that occurs very often and about how large a proportion of the population would qualify for an entire degree by PLA.

    Lawrie:
    Has it ever occurred to you do test your beliefs and doubts by reference to the world outside that three and a half pounds of neurons and dendrites that are your universe? Coud you look to the 100,000+ Excelsior graduates, many of whom have earned a degree in much less than a year? Not the few, the many.

    Bill:
    Even people enmeshed in a subject on the job will probably not be familiar with the range of their discipline or with all the underlying theory that supports it, Some new learning and study will probably be necessary even in most of their cases.

    Lawrie:
    I do not think you have any basis for that first statement. Many people are *immersed* in a subject on the job, and may be sufficiently familiar with the range of their discipline and underlying theory. Some new learning may indeed be required, but how much? It may also be true that in many cases no new learning will be required, only revision.

    Bill:
    I am also troubled by the possibility of examinations that one can pass without having any significant previous exposure to the subject. That exposure might range from having taken a class to personal interest and informal reading. But whatever, it would seem to be necessary.

    Lawrie:
    Well, passing the exam must demonstrate exposure to the subject matter of the test, that is axiomatic. I understand you are troubled by the possibility, but it is important to look at the data, try some exams yourself, base conclusions as far as possible on empirical evidence. I may be troubled by the possibility that pink flamingos will poop on my lawn, but is my concern justified? I look to the evidence. I am living in Novosibirsk. Pink flamingos are not a common sight here. I conclude my level of concern may not be justified based on the available evidence. If I do not get up off my butt and determine where I am, I may worry, or be concerned by the possibility and those damned flamingos, forever.

    Bill:
    If it is possible to pass an examination in a subject in which you know no more than the average man on the street, then that's a reductio-ad-absurdem of university credit and comes very close to the definition of "degree mill".

    Lawrie:
    I don't know that it is. In fact that is simply not true. It does not follow. The man in the street possesses no knowledge comparable to that of a college student? Can that statement be remotely plausible? Is that your position?

    Anyway, for the sake of argument, 'If' I have a toddler fingerprint the the answers, and he passes and is awarded college credit, that *would* be evidence of degree mill doings. If you were to base your propositions, rationale, and conclusions on empirical data, I might agree with what I think is your underlying concern. The Renaissance has come and gone, Bill, you cannot sit in your cell contemplating your belly button, and thereby know the world.

    Bill:
    But if that isn't possible and if some study is necessary before the exam can successfully be passed, then I doubt very much whether one can earn a BA on one's own in just 4 weeks. The necessary study will take considerably longer than that.


    Lawrie:
    Well, sure. If it isn't possible it cannot be done. You weren't risking the farm on that one. Yet we know it is possible, we know that because it is done every day. People complete degree requirements in well under four years. As noted elsewhere, college I worked on the discipline 8% of the time. The proposition that a four year degree should necessarily take anything like four years is not supported by the evidence. Partying takes and deserves four years, and that is what most people do for all of that time period. The problem is inefficient learning strategies, not accelerated, efficient methodologies, delineated in BA in 4 Weeks.

    Bill:
    So my biggest objection is to the title "BA in 4 Weeks". If Lawrie gave his opus a less provocative title I'd have fewer reservations about it. But as it stands, the title is an invitation to caricature that doesn't really help to further the credibility of DL and PLA.

    Lawrie:
    And if Bill would eschew conjecture for a moment, and take the time to click his right mouse button, he could read the introduction to the work, which delineates theory and methods. Good grief, Bill, read the thing.

    (See you next year)
     
  19. Lawrie Miller

    Lawrie Miller New Member

    Hmm, been slacking off, I see. Congratulations on a wonderful effort.

    Two quotes from BA in 4 Weeks have particular relevance, here.


    "There is nothing in the actions proposed in this series that I and others as average adult learners have not already proved doable, and that you, at least our equal, cannot do too. This series is not borne of theory and wishful thinking but of practical experience and demonstrable accomplishment. It is not a prospectus for the gifted elite, but a usable guide for ordinary men and women who dare to do something extraordinary."


    "Whatever your relative performance though, what matters is that you see it through to the end and get the degree. Do not be swayed by the uninformed naysayers. . . While some will wag a finger and offer a host reasons why it can't be done, you'll be off earning your bachelor's diploma. There is no more eloquent riposte. "



    Lawrie Miller
    author: BA in 4 Weeks
    http://geocities.com/ba_in_4_weeks/
     
  20. Lawrie Miller

    Lawrie Miller New Member

    The subjects featured in BA in 4 Weeks were carefully selected. Math, other than the minimum required for the degree was studiously avoided. Same goes for all the Sciences. Only the minimum requirements are featured. Reason is clear, most people eschew quantitative disciplines.

    It is asinine to suggest that learners play to their weaknesses (and it has been suggested) if it is possible for them, under the rules, to play to their strengths. The exam subjects chosen were those I believed most accessible to the largest cohort, and those most amenable to self study.


    Lawrie Miller, inter alia, HND Applied Mathematics
     

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