Entry to a DL Masters Program without an undergrad degree or GMAT

Where and what DL Master (RA, DETC,GAAP) programs are available without someone having to have the undergrad degree or having a GMAT?

Masters degrees may include:

Liberal Arts.
Science,
Education,
Business,
Engineering,
Theology,
Other?

John Roberts PhD (London ICST)

 

During the 7 years I had an involvement with the MBA of the Edinburgh Business School (Heriot-Watt University), I was pretty well convinced they were the only program that had absolutely no prerequisites.

Professor Kennedy of Heriot-Watt has written, here, that most British universities have some provision for non-Bachelor's applicants into Master's programs. I know the MS at Leicester's Centre for Labour Market Studies had an 8-month DL part time 'diploma' program for non-Bachelor's applicants, in effect for them to show they were capable of Master's level work.

For the US, there is the not uncommon matter of 'bending the rules' (which is why there is a chapter of that name in Bears;' Guide). Schools do things that they don't say, in their literature, that they do. One example, which I've written about (here, I think, last year): when some evil prankster wrote to 18 (that is my recollection) prestigious MBA programs, as if I, that is, he were a high level company executive with no Bachelor's, interested in taking two years off to pursue an MBA, full tuition, was there any hope, 16 replied that something could probably be worked out -- either formally (Columbia said they reserved some slots for such people) or informally. Only NYU and Brigham Young said absolutely not.

 

I suspect there's going to be very few if any programs that will officially say that an undergrad degree is not required. I know it can happen on an exception basis though.

I too would be interested to know if anyone knows of a DL Master program that doesn't officially require an undergrad degree.

P.S. Thanks, Dr. Bear

 

Answer? Virtually everywhere!

Virtually EVERY British university will consider someone for admission to a master's programme without having a bachelor's degree, especially if s/he is 30 years of age and upwards and has professional experience and/or professional body qualifications and can demonstrate they have the abiliity to succeed in the programme! A bachelor's degree doesn't demonstrate you have the ability to get through, for example, an MBA and neither does a GMAT score. I'd do away with both as admissions criteria! I've been teaching MBA, and other programmes, for over fifteen years at a major UK university (and others) so I do know what I'm talking about and have a view on this issue! This is also true for MEd degree programmes (which I've also taught). I think we have a far more open and flexible approach to the whole notion of lifelong learnign than in the USA (this was not the case 15-20 years ago) and we are going out of our way to transfer credit and give real value to prior learning and experience than is the case in the US. My opinionis that the US seems to be revertibng back to more traditional systems and accepting less and less prior learning/experience as being valuable. Perhaps it is to do with the smallness of the country in comparision with the US where you are so vast you need so-called national standards (as mythical as they are!), credit transfer, etc. My only complaint is that, for a small island, this Labour government is acting as if we are some huge state and imposing so many draconian so-called quality standards that it is paralyzing the education system at every level.

'telfax'

 

Telfax: My only complaint is that, for a small island, this Labour government is acting as if we are some huge state...

John: Yeah, a huge state that can impose draconian standards and send its armed forces to join the US in going to war with Iraq.

John Bear, wondering when and why
Bush and Blair became joined at the hip

 

Telefax, you being over the pond would appreciate J.B's answer, when you should respond with a 'Oh God' I really miss Harold MacMillan, Harold Wilson, Lord Douglas Home..to which J.B would probably respond what about JFK, LBJ & Nixon, none of whom gave a DL about draconian quality standards.

They were too busy taking care of their own personal problems and had no worries about DL & Accreditation, when back in the good ole days UK universities where and still are draconian..take a message from the way its done over here across the pond.

Joined at the Hip & the Lip it shall be, until the Brits learn how to play (rounders), sorry J.B, thats baseball.

Whats the call for the world series anyway?

John Roberts Ph.D (London ICST)

 

telfax, made an error on your name SPELLING in the last post...forgive me.

J R.

 

I'd rather comcentrate on education!

I certainly don't want to get into the rights and wrongs of going to war with Iraq here other than to say there is absolutely no case for this so-called 'regime change' flaunted by Bush and Blair! Iraq has never been a democracy....anyway that's another story! The British government is draconian. There was much to be changed in the UK education system (at all levels) and, in my judgement, evenm more so with the US system, especially in higher education, and DL is the key to the real challenge.

'telfax'

 

Measure by output not input

Edinburgh Business School (Heriot-Watt University) believes in measuring performance by output only. This is presently a minority opinion in international Business Schools.

For those without a Bachelor Degree we say 'prove you can meet the standards set by our exam regime': pass two of our core examinations (out of seven you must pass). If you do pass two of them you can be admitted to the programme.

In results of over 42,000 successful passes in nine core examinations nobody could successfully predict which were from Bachellor graduates and which were from persons without Baclellor degrees. If you cannot identify sub-sets in a sample population then you cannot say there is a difference between them.

On that basis we are confident that our ouput test of performance is valid. Of course, the small majority of persons who fail our examinations (about 25 per cent who attempt them) are persons without a Bachelor degree; but that also means that the large minority who also fail them have Bachelor degrees. The 'two exams' test works.

A similar proportion of the seven per cent of students who gain 'Distinctions' (in the British grading scale this means persons who achieve a grade of 70 per cent and over in their exams in nine subjects - seven core and two electives) have Bachelor degrees as don't have them. Our performance measure works.

All British Universities admit people without Bachelor Degrees on a case by case basis (so does Harvard, etc.,). They just do not advertise this fact. We make our admission criterion clear: If you can prove your competence, you get in; if you can't you don't. Its pass or perish. Employers know what they are hiring if they hire an EBS MBA graduate.

 

Re: Measure by output not input

Surely these are sage words. Those who argue certain critical attributes of "an education", not amenable to testing or assessment, are not transferred in distance learning, may care to ask themselves how they know that, given that they cannot be tested or assessed. They may also find it useful to reflect on the absurdity of the proposition.

I ask them to ask themselves, for I have asked them to no good end. They may also find it instructive to meditate on Gavin Kennedy's second declaration which makes the same point but with elegance and simplicity. It is worth repeating:

" If you cannot identify sub-sets in a sample population then you cannot say there is a difference between them."

Simple, transparent, obvious.

This same subject will be covered in some depth in a forthcoming article in BA in 4 Weeks, entitled:

PEDAGOGICAL QUACKERY - If it walks like a duck
(Fungaroli et al)

This will use the sayings and chants of Carole Fungaroli Ph.D. and other tenured cognoscenti, to explore and analyze arguments on both sides of the debate.


Lawrie Miller
author: BA in 4 Weeks and Accelerated Master's Degrees by Distance Learning*
http://www.geocities.com/ba_in_4_weeks/

* parts being released as they are completed