How do you get DETC Accreditation

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by John Roberts, Oct 21, 2002.

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  1. John Roberts

    John Roberts New Member

    Looked at the DETC site and there is lots of info on what an institution should do or produce to get accreditation.

    Apart from the money thing (how much does it cost), piles of documentation on program offerings, faculty listing and proof of satisfied Graduates.

    Then why could'nt a non traditional DL like Continental or Fairfax get a listed accreditation?

    Going in with an application for BA/BSc should be an easier way to go.

    Has anyone been involved in getting DETC accreditation for an Institution?


    John Roberts Ph. D (London ICST)
     
  2. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I suspect that a reason some unaccredited schools haven't applied for DETC accreditation is that until very recently, DETC would not accredit schools offerring Ph.D. degrees. If this is an important part of a schools revenue stream then they would be very reluctant to give it up.
     
  3. telfax

    telfax New Member

    DETC still cannot....

    It is my understanding that the DETC still cannot consider for accreditation any US institution that offers degrees beyond the so called professional doctorate level - e.g. JD. This rules out any institution (USA) offering the PhD, EdD, etc. As I read the DETC regulations they accredit whole institutions, not just specific degrees or programmes - unless of course the institution is a non-USA institution. Then DETC seems to make its own rules up as it goes along and accredits bits and pieces, programmes it seems to like and so on!

    'telfax'
     
  4. PaulC

    PaulC Member

    Re: DETC still cannot....

    FWIW, an accrediting organization must first demonstrate its ability to acredit at an advanced level before it will receive acceptance for that level of accreditation by the US Dept. of Ed.

    For example, if the DETC desired to accredit at the PhD level, they would, by rule, have to first go through the process and accredit a PhD program. Then, the Dept of Ed would review what they did and determine if it was worthy of official acceptance. This goes back to when DETC accredited the JD program at Concord before they were officially recognized to do so. Some were brazen enough to say that that action would be the nail in the coffin for the DETC. Of course, those that held that opinion were not versed in the protocol of the US Dept of Ed in these matters.

    This is the same as a school that is seeking accreditation. A school has to have students and demonstrate its ability to present a program and graduate students before it would be offered accreditation by a regional.
     
  5. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    John Roberts:
    Apart from the money thing (how much does it cost),

    The Centre for Labour Market Studies at the U of Leicester figured over $50,000, including staff time.

    Then why couldn't a non traditional DL like Continental or Fairfax get a listed accreditation?

    A key part, perhaps *the* key part of the application is the site visit, in which a team of 4 or 5 or more people spend an intensive day at the school. For that to happen, there has to be a school. There wouldn't be much to visit at the mail forwarding service that Fairfax uses (even if they rented the by-the-hour conference room at their facility), or the building that Continental will be using in Lemmon, SD which, as of this afternoon (a nice talk with founder John Craparo) has zero employees.

    Going in with an application for BA/BSc should be an easier way to go.

    Since there need to be DETC-hired specialists or knowledgeable people in all fields offered, I think it is more important to be vertically simple (AA, BA, MA in the same field), than to be horizontal (a variety of offerings at the Bachelor's level)/.

    Has anyone been involved in getting DETC accreditation for an Institution?

    Yes, for the University of Leicester application. My colleagues and I were the US agents for the CLMS distance MA in training and in HR at the time. Leicester seemed enthusiastic at the time -- in large part because DETC accreditation would have facilitated paid enrollments from US military -- but I see they have subsequently resigned their accreditation, and I don't know why. CLMS, incidentally did and does offer Ph.D. programs, so once again, I'm a little confused by the DETC process
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2002
  6. telfax

    telfax New Member

    I THINK JOHN BEAR IS WRONG AND BIASED

    I've spent the last 18 months looking at 'distance learning' (and whatever other phrase or description you wish to apply to this description). John Bear accuses organizations of 'not having a campus' (by implication) as being being 'not worthy'. Well, North Central (Arizona) has achieved candidacy for accreditation in a very relative short period of time and that institution doesn't have a great deal to show as a 'campus' but it clearly has sufficient to satisfy accreditation needs. He then speaks about Fairfax University in Louisiana. That institution does have offices (3 large ones) in an executive office suite in a modern office complex where institutions like American Express, 12 law firms and a State of Louisiana specialized and recognized accrediting agency all have offices! I've 'been and seen' at the start of this year, as I have 'been and seen' at other institutions! Many of the institutions cited on this board as being 'doubtful/dubious [often by implication] have excellent office facilities (albeit they are rented). I in no way support degree mills! However, there are so many 'offerings' posted here by people who simply are 'arm chair critics' who have not the slightest idea as to the reality of exactly what is going on in international education. Many of the soc-called experts on education who contribute to this site need to start to understyand the huge moves that are taking place in education format. Believe me the US IS NOT leading the way here!

    'telfax'
     
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Re: I THINK JOHN BEAR IS WRONG AND BIASED

    Originally posted by telfax
    I've spent the last 18 months looking at 'distance learning' (and whatever other phrase or description you wish to apply to this description). John Bear accuses organizations of 'not having a campus' (by implication) as being being 'not worthy'.

    I'm not sure others share your interpretation of that "implication." As I read it, John was pointing out that a mail-forwarding service like the one Fairfax uses wouldn't exactly impress the accreditors. I've also read many things John's written over the years stating that many fine, legitimate schools operate from a few offices. I don't ever remember him--or anyone else--implying there was a correlation between the size of the school's facilities and their qualifications to be accredited.

    Well, North Central (Arizona) has achieved candidacy for accreditation in a very relative short period of time and that institution doesn't have a great deal to show as a 'campus' but it clearly has sufficient to satisfy accreditation needs.

    "Northcentral," not "North Central." No one suggested Northcentral's offices were insufficient. As I said, John's many writings have supported the notion that a few administrative offices were all some schools required. You need to get some history before you jump to your conclusions.

    I don't think anyone's definition of sufficient operating facilities includes offices a "school" rents by the hour.

    He then speaks about Fairfax University in Louisiana. That institution does have offices (3 large ones) in an executive office suite in a modern office complex where institutions like American Express, 12 law firms and a State of Louisiana specialized and recognized accrediting agency all have offices! I've 'been and seen' at the start of this year, as I have 'been and seen' at other institutions!


    I'm not sure what most of that means. I've not seen Fairfax's offices. Are you saying that they occupy them full-time, rather than by the hour?

    Many of the institutions cited on this board as being 'doubtful/dubious [often by implication] have excellent office facilities (albeit they are rented).


    Which of these have been impugned for lacking such? What does that have to do with John's comment about Fairfax?

    I in no way support degree mills! However, there are so many 'offerings' posted here by people who simply are 'arm chair critics' who have not the slightest idea as to the reality of exactly what is going on in international education. Many of the soc-called experts on education who contribute to this site need to start to understyand the huge moves that are taking place in education format. Believe me the US IS NOT leading the way here!



    I sure wish I knew what that means. To which "huge moves" do you refer? And how are they not understood? Which "arm chair cirtics"? What is an "arm chair critic," and how does one avoid such a condition?

    To be a "so-called expert," doesn't someone have to call someone else an expert? While I certainly think of many people posting here as experts, I don't recall that term being tossed about except by someone who's mad at something said.
     
  8. An institution cannot even apply for DETC accreditation until it has been in operation with students for at least 2 years. This rule applies unless the institution is owned by an organization with accreditation (and hence the reason why Cardean purchased ISIM). So Continental cannot yet apply since it has had one student only for a few months. My understanding is that John Craparo was at the annual DETC meeting in Denver this spring busily exploring the requirements and developing plans for an application as soon as the rules allow.
     
  9. John Roberts

    John Roberts New Member

    TELFAX, In the UK as (was it) you have stated before, education has become an open thing. During the past 35 years tremendous changes have taken place to let people get into the learning thing. Oh how I remember getting a place at 17 needed top pecentile marks (money and who's-who mattered then) even for one of the regional universities, and if that didn't work the Polytechs, and if that didnt work Block release and if that didnt work Day release, just to get a post secondary education. No wonder the brain drain happened in the 60's, it all went to Australia, North America, SA.

    So on we go to not understanding the Brit thing, when Technical colleges became Colleges of Technology, Polytechs became universities, Brits had to show the Yanks & Europeans they were up to snuff in 4-5 year programs that they offered and number of university seat available.

    In the 70's BTEC was introduced replacing the old system, and then along came NVQ's and life long learning. Still today in the UK, withsome being assessed single subject like Management and being given that Magic NVQ5 piece of paper, would you allow this person into you college/university straight to a Ph.D program? Doubt it!

    The thought of the Brit government two years ago suggesting 2 year Engineering degrees was laughed out of the European Parliment and others.

    The French & Germans are on record to say Brit degrees are inferior.

    Who was it that said, "Today any Brit university will take any 30 year old without an undergrad degree into a graduate program (they dont say this but..)", and to think as an example at Liverpool John Moores (or was that Byrom St, Polytech 30 years ago) will take an HND anything (AA Degree )straight into a Masters program?.

    No GMAT required for an MBA, not that this is a bad thing.

    As for Fairfax, I read in one of their publications that they hired someone to just do the accreditation thing, but dropped it like a ton of bricks I believe, stating time & Money was the issue, or was it delivering on the Documentation?

    One thing going for Fairfax, is as a business they follow the golden rule of Marking properly, named and known President and Chancellor, clean info..but their delivery and quality of goods, I cant comment on.

    Does anyone know of anybody that did the Fairfax thing and graduated with a Masters/Doctorate?

    Telfax, your assumption on the (guys/chaps) posting to this topic are probably for the most part North Americans (living here that is), have had considerable experience and exposure to European, USA/CAN, Australian and the infamous SA systems. I would like to think they are somewhat knowledgable..eh.?

    J.R (ic)
     
  10. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Mr. telfax has practiced poor ettiquette

    Mr. telfax, I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this post. I think it would help tremendously in making your meaning clearer if instead of using vague generalities and sorry paraphrasing in accussing others of strange statements, that you simply quote exactly what it is that you are trying to respond to. After the quote, you give your own thoughts. Also, if the exact source of the quote is not obvious then it is normal practice to provide the source of the quote so that the veracity can be verified by anyone that is interested.

    Thank you,
    Bill
     

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