How can I earn quick easy college credit?

Excelsior college told me I need to complete 28 credit hours in order to graduate. My goal is to obtain a degree in bachelor of science in psychology. It is the appled professional part that needs the 28 hours. Out of the 28, six needs to be upper level. So, please tell me about the easiest test I can take in a short time.

 

Avia93 - I appreciate your desire to earn a degree, but what matters more - having a piece of paper that says "bachelor's degree" or knowing something about psychology?

What you are asking seems to be a comon thread here - How can I earn a credential? Isn't the more important question - How can I gain an education? These are two very different questions.

Have you considered taking some upper division courses in psychology at a local university? This may take some time and you may have to sit in class - but perhaps you can learn more about the field.

Just a thought - Andy

 

I am a bit confused. I thought you were looking at an associates from your local university. Anyway, you haven't told us what credits you have taken, and what you haven't, so please use this as just a guideline, and check with Excelsior for the final answer.

First, you don't have to take any applied professional credits if you don't wish to. So, rather than looking at that, here is a run-down of what you need to look at. Excelsior's Liberal Arts Catalog is the best place to start, as it explains everything that you need for your program and concentration. Excelsior's Student Guide To Credit By Examination is the place to look for testing possibilities.

Requirements would be English Composition, Science/Math Requirement, Humanities Requirement, and Social Sciences Requirement. Do you meet these requirements? Also, there are two depth requirements. One would be covered by Psychology courses, have you covered the other one yet?

Have you completed all requirements for the psychology concentration yet? This would include Research Methods, Statistics, the core courses, and a certain number of other courses covering various aspects of Psychology (see the Liberal Arts Catalog).

ECE and DSST tests have various tests that are worth upper level credit. Org. Behavior is a good one to take, if you haven't already, as it ties into the Psychology program. But again, more information is needed. CLEP is some of the cheapest credit available via testing, and is good for lower level credit only. Both CLEP and ECE tests are computer based, so you are given your score/grade on the spot.

 

Ok, let me explain

Okay! I've already earned 108 hours taken regular course at my university. I have taken all my upper level psychology courses at my university the regular way on campus. The criminal justice degree is justice an extra degree i'm picking up.

 

See BA in 4 Weeks, where there are copious notes on the various standardized Psychology exams currently available, and the related Exam Difficulty Index , which grades these and other tests in terms of relative effort required to score a grade "B" or better. For links, practice tests, and other info on the Psych tests, including the GRE Psych exam, see the mainmenu and the GRE Psych page. For book recommendations, see the pages detailed above, About Books, and, the BA in 4 Weeks Exam Book Lists.


Lawrie Miller
BA n 4 Weeks - one-stop shopping to a degree by examination
http://geocities.com/BA_in_4_Weeks

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Re: Re: How can I earn quick easy college credit?

Why must it be one or the other? Why would pursuing a bachelor's degree for, among other things, the sake of the credential, mean the student would know nothing about the subject of study? How does that follow, necessarily?

It is a requirement of degree conferral that one demonstrates competence by passing the relevant exams. Does the desire to have one's learning recognized and certified, in some way diminish its quality? You seem to be saying one set of motivations, processes, and methods are superior the other. How do you know? Isn't it true that you do not know? All of those who obtain a degree from one of the legitimate assessment institutions write and pass a series of public national examinations. Where are you data that speak to their inferiority?

In fact, they are the same question. Either a candidate for a degree (certification) has reached the required standard or she has not. We need to employ some method of gauging competence. If there is, as you say, a difference between earning a "credential" and gaining an "education", how can you substantiate that without recourse to some kind of testing? Legitimate certification validates learning. The credential testifies that the holder has reached some required standard. Whether as a student the graduate sought a "credential" or an "education" is irrelevant. The outcomes are the same, namely passes or failures at the required level in the prescribed subjects in some kind of assessment exam.

Testing is certification of competence (education), Andy, and to demonstrate superiority of one methodology or pedagogy over another, requires objective assessment of outcomes. Objective assessment of outcomes requires testing. Testing is a method of certifying competencies. Competencies are the demonstrable product of education - are "an education" as it is commonly recognized. It makes no difference whatsoever how a candidate may study or what their motivation during study may have been. All that is important is their performance in the prescribed assessment (testing by any other name). That is the only measurement we have available. It is simply makes no sense to hand wave and talk of differences in "education" and legitimate "certification" since in order to establish those differences do indeed exist would require validation (certification) that involved neither testing nor certification.

What makes you think that? How do you know? How exactly would we assess competencies after this study, Andy? Is your issue with outcomes or processes? How do you know one process is superior to another, other than in terms of outcomes? Where are your data?

Education has no meaning or relevance of any kind whatsoever, other than in terms of outcomes. The only way we can gauge a candidates learning is by testing. It should be a simple matter then, for you to back your claims with verifiable data, and if you cannot, aren't your remarks simply borne of prejudice and pedagogical quackery?


Lawrie Miller
BA n 4 Weeks
http://geocities.com/BA_in_4_Weeks

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Re: Re: Re: How can I earn quick easy college credit?

I find it interesting in this forum that no one seems to have any use for entrance examinations - such as the GMAT - that could lead to a person being denied entrance to a program. Such tests aren't valid, it is argued and they are unfair.

But when it comes to granting credit - if only one can pass a multiple choice test, then they can get a piece of paper.

Testing is an imprecise science at best. One can hardly digest a discipline as complex as accounting, computer science or management and compact it into a three hour exam. Education is more than just reciting facts - it involves a host of subjective elements and skills. Historically, these have been conveyed by faculty working with students in a process that involves socialization. Today no one seems to have time to do this - they want those letters (BS, MS, PhD) as quick and as cheaply as they can get them. What a shame.

A PhD degree with no learning is worthless. A worthless degree and 50 cents will buy you a cup of coffee, at a cheap diner. Learning is the focus, letters after your name are secondary.

States such as Michigan have learned the same thing. Rather than limit their measurement of outcomes in K-12 to a single, high stakes exam, they are learning to measure other things in the schools as well - graduation rates, number of class days, etc.

In fact I am actively involved in research in the use of outcome exams (in particular the ICCP) and course grades with a sample of some 194 students completing MSIS degrees over the past three years. The results are interesting - but hardly a precise science.

Lawrie - can you please share with this NG the results of your research in this field? What was your sample size? How did you collect your data? If you haven't done any, can you please stop making remarks "borne of prejudice and pedagfogical quackery".

Regards - Andy

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: How can I earn quick easy college credit?

So, since you can produce no citation or other corroboration of your assertions, you ask me to provide proof that you are "not right".


1. The degrees you trash are regionally accredited.
2. As noted in my reply to your original unsubstantiated and derisive comments, credit is awarded to candidates passing public standardized exams.
3. The exams are normed relative to the graded performance of traditional U.S. college students.
4. Excepting the GRE subject exams, the standard score range is 20 to 80, with the average score set at 50, SD = 10.
5. Details of data collection methodologies, sample sizes (~800 - 1024), raw totals, interpretations, and conclusions, are available for each and every test, CLEP, DANTES, ECE, and GRE subject exam.
6. See:-
http://www.getcollegecredit.com/PDFFiles/TECHDATASHEET.pdf
GRE subject norming details appear in the exam prep books - also available for download free via the BA in 4 Weeks web site main menu.
http://ntis01.ets.org/onyx/cbtguide.htm
CLEP Official Guide Grading Data (last two pages of Official Guide) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0874476615/qid%3D1013368840/sr%3D1-1/ref%3Dsr%5F1%5F1/102-3271547-6256108
http://www.excelsior.edu/pdf/ec_reggd.pdf
http://www.excelsior.edu/pdf/cat_exam.pdf

Actually it was "pedagogical quackery", but anyhoo. What I may or may not have done in irrelevent. You are the one making the claim that these regionally accredited degrees are inferior and it is for you to substantiate that charge. The burden of proof is yours, not mine.

However, I have done my research, (try reading BA in 4 Weeks), have cited evidence via the standardized exams, equating the performance of distance students to that of traditional college students, and unlike you, have direct hands-on experience of these exams and detailed knowledge of the regionally accredited assessment colleges requirements for degree conferral.

Now, once again, provide data to back your assertions or curtail the mumbo jumbo. Real simple, Andy, either you can back your views or you can't.

Well, of course, this is nonsense. The British have been doing this for centuries. Nearly all of my school and college assessment in the UK turned on my performance in a series of 2 to 3 1/2 hour exams. Courses are "chunks" of complete subjects. It is ludicrous to suggest competence in a portion and level of a subject cannot be assessed in an examination.

- I can think of few exams I've written that did not require, as a major component, the ability to apply knowledge of a subject in a way that clearly demonstrated understanding of key concepts and methods.

Really? With respect to, say, Laplace transforms, or, the solution of multi-server single-line mxn queuing problems using Monte Carlo simulation, how do we quantify the impact of socialization on learning? More voodoo? I am sorry, Andy, could you explain how you know that "education" is "conveyed by faculty working with students in a process that involves socialization", without testing the premise?

Seriously, is this a magic process where the effect is not amenable to investigation or objective testing? Do you just "feel it". Do you look into their eyes and "know" you are doing it right? Let us forgo the incense and sacred chants, how do you know what you know in this respect without assessment? How? Explanation and citation, please. Surely this is an opportunity to let your allegedly superior education shine. Where's the beef?

Isn't it true that in fact, you do not know. Aren't these assertions of yours less about facts and more to do with self interest and deep-seated incoherent prejudices? Isn't it the case that you have absolutely no clue whether your ideas have any basis in real world at all?

That is the truth of it, is it not?



Lawrie Miller
BA n 4 Weeks - a non commercial resource for adult learners
http://geocities.com/BA_in_4_Weeks

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How can I earn quick easy college credit?

Lawrie - Enough trash talking.

The original post said:

"So, please tell me about the easiest test I can take in a short time. "

I merely suggested that the easiest road isn't always the best. Taking some time to take some upper division courses in Psychology may be worthwhile. Surely you can agree that taking several full semester long courses is likely to lead to more learning than "the easiest test I can take in a short time".

That's all.

I don't doubt one can earn a degree in 4 weeks. I've never trashed any of the three undergrad or several grad schools you push in your website. I accept the fact that these schools are RA and that there is a basis for them awarding degrees.

Hopefully, you can agree that the three schools you push aren't among the best regarded academic institutions in the U.S. Further, you should be able to recognize the techniques that you suggest (CLEP, GRE subject area tests, etc.) aren't accepted at all schools as a basis for credit. At your website you even point out the purpose of GRE subject exams - to gain admission to grad school, not to earn undergraduate credit.

So why don't you cool down, dude.

Regards - Andy

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: How can I earn quick easy college credit?

Andy, if what you say about grade inflation is true, the cheapest degrees are those earned as a result of testing after the completion of a class (either DL or traditional). Grade inflation suggests that the process of testing (and thereby, the process of awarding degrees) is totally subjective as soon as the professor gets involved. By contrast, CLEP testing is totally objective. Either the test taker makes the grade or he doesn't. Since you have seen grade inflation in action, and apparently practiced it yourself, it seems like you should be in favor of CLEP testing, since it takes the subjectivity out of the process and takes the pressure to bow to the whims of the consumer-student off of the professor.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How can I earn quick easy college credit?

Or it may not be. It is appearently a near certainty that the student will pass those courses, whether he or she learns anything or not.

I'm not sure that even you would agree with that, since the easiest route may actually be to take the course, assuming, once again, that grade inflation is a reality. I believe that CLEPs do require disciplined study in order to achieve a passing grade.

Maybe they should be, what with their emphasis on objective means of assessing learning, as opposed to grade inflation.

Once again, maybe CLEP, GRE, etc. should be used more widely for awarding credit, since they do take the pressure off of professors to give good grades to keep students from complaining.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How can I earn quick easy college credit?

Tracy - Here are some thoughts. Regards - Andy

First of all see my post to Steve on grade inflation. It is more or less a problem at different schools. I'm less offended by grade inflation at top schools that are selective, that demand a lot of students and that have good instruction. I detest grade inflation at schools that aren't selective and don't expect much of students in the first place.

I wouldn't say that testing is totally subjective. Each instructor has some biases - but students complete 40+ classes to earn a BS and typically have dozens of different instructors. Many of these instructors will use standard texts and exam questions. As for CLEP being totally objective - I've never seen a totally objective test. Even the best standardized test has some biases in it. For examples, most of the college admissions tests seem to have a bias, of some sorts, against African Americans.

Yes - but what are the questions? Some person made the questions up - and that person has some bias. Of course standardized tests like CLEP and GRE try to manage bias - but realize they are still tests. The knowledge and skills in your head can't be perfectly measured. This whole line of reasonsing "If you can't measure it, it can't be real", is nonesense. If you doubt that read Deming.

Who said I practiced grade inflation? I didn't. As for CLEP testing, I agree that it may be a reasoanble way to measure learning for some subjects that students learn outside the classroom. Is CLEP a replacement for taking course work under the guidance of a faculty member? I don't think so. I advise a lot of students in the 18-22 year old range. I generally wouldn't advise them to cram for a CLEP exam in place of taking a course. Competence based programs - such as WGU runs - need to be supported by instruction. One can't learn a topic by magic - he/she has to study in some form.

As for the GRE - its purpose is to measure a students preparation for graduate school. Using it to award credit isn't what it was designed to do. Again, I don't quarrel that it could be used for some students to award credit. But is the GRE a substitute for taking courses in a major area? I sure hope my doctor actually took some courses and studied under the eyes of a skilled doctor. If all he can do is pass multiplle guess questions - is he qualified?

How about another option. How about students taking challenging classes from profs that don't put up with student guff about grades. How about students devoting time to study and focusing on being passionate in learning a subject - not in getting pieces of paper based on "please tell me about the easiest test I can take in a short time. "

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How can I earn quick easy college credit?

Some more thoughts. Regards - Andy

Not at a quality school - grade inflation isn't everywhere. Some faculty demand performance out of their students. Unfortunately, some schools have caved into a "student centered" mentality where students aren't held to a standard.

 

I don't think the quality of the school is going to help the student actually learn something from the class. It's the instructor. I refuse to believe that there are not ANY lousy instructors at quality schools (perhaps less of them).

Best Regards,

Bill

 

Andy, I'm just glad to see that you are willing to admit that CLEP is a reasonable way to measure learning. Now if you would just quit assuming that those who ask about them don't really know the subject matter.

Sorry about accusing you of practicing grade inflation. I re-read the post where I thought you said that you did. I had, indeed, misread it.

Lastly, I'm not so sure that the key to learning is the instructor. Sometimes the instructor acutally hinders the process, does he not?

 

I should of quoted more of what I was responding to before I posted that message.

What I meant was, if I had to decide if the reason why I wasn't learning anything in a specific class, would it be because:

A> The school quality

B> Quality of the instructor/professor/teacher/whatever

I would pick B.

Some people teach better than others. I have learned alot in some classes and have learned less in others. I honestly do not think I am going to learn more about.. say, Algebra in Harvard than I would at Beer Can Community College. However, I do think I will learn more if the class is taught by an instructor who catches my interest and can explain problems in terms that idiots like me can understand.

Now, maybe a good quality school means its filled with good professors? I would bet there are all kinds of lousy instructors in quality schools. Maybe its not the instructors fault. I think I would learned more in a class taught at a local comm college with 15 other students compared to a university class w/ 50 or more students.

Best Regards,

Bill

 

Tracy and Bill - good questions. Learning (or a lack of learning) comes about in many different ways. For my strong students, I suspect they'd probably learn without my help. I need to learn to get out of their way and give them encouragement to conquer material themselves. Weaker students can really be helped by caring faculty.

Are there lousy instructors at every school? There sure are. Better schools generally draw better faculty - but every university has it share of trouble.

Regards - Andy

 

Do "quality" (i.e. highly ranked) schools even recruit faculty based upon teaching ability, for the most part? It's my impression that large, well-known schools emphasize research and publication, rather than teaching outcomes, when hiring and retaining faculty. There are some excellent teachers in the bunch, but it seems to be despite the environment, rather than because of it. I'm sure that there are exceptions to this, and it probably varies somewhat between fields of study, but it seems to be the dominant situation, and fits in with my own experience. Am I wrong in this?

For the most part I believe that I learn much more deeply and efficiently when given access to the material and left to my own devices, though it can be nice to have someone available if I have questions. I have encountered a few exceptional instructors who managed to make the classroom experience add to my learning, but this has been very rare for me. A group learning environment must necessarily cater to the average student (though often it ends up being the "lowest common denominator"), and this is really a hinderance unless you fit into one of those groups. I suppose that a very selective school will have a student population with much higher average abilities, but there is still room for a lot of variance, and there is still the issue of the instructor's teaching ability.

Also, if an instructor uses objective criteria for grading, then I fail to see why their methods of evaluation should be considered superior to a well designed comprehensive examination on the subject. If they don't use objective criteria for grading, then I would be concerned anyway.

Of course the validity of CLEP and DANTES exams is another matter. I won't argue that they are invalid, but my own anecdotal experience with 1 DANTES and 3 CLEP exams has been that the exam was much, much easier to score well on (70+) than it was to even pass almost any course that I took in a traditional manner. I'm not even talking about the amount of work required, or the research and writing necessary for a traditional course, I'm just comparing the difficulty of these exams with the difficulty of comprehensive final exams that I've taken. Also, in order to truly provide an equivalent assessment, wouldn't the same assessment tools need to be used (such as papers, etc.)? I would still encourage people to get as much credit as they can through these means (I wish that I would have known 15 years ago about the option to do so), but I just can't totally buy the suggestion that people are demonstrating the same level of knowledge or ability as if they'd taken and passed a course in the subject. I wonder if this is why there is so much variation between schools in direct acceptance of these exams for credit. Then again, maybe I'm wrong and the typical course really doesn't teach any more than is required for these exams. That possibility is troublesome, but it does seem to be supported, at least to some extent, by the data used to validate the exams.

Sorry for the disorganized stream of thought.

 

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CLearly, had that been your comment, there would be no argument. In fact, what you said was:
"I appreciate your desire to earn a degree, but what matters more - having a piece of paper that says "bachelor's degree" or knowing something about psychology? "

That is bachelor's degree or know[ing] something about psychology, not "that the easiest road isn't always the best".

It is clear that you offer no evidence in support of your position(see original exchange, this thread). Some may think it a particular irony that those who allege lack of quality standards in the education of others, fail to demonstrate the most basic skills of scholarship, namely, reasoned argument backed by relevant citation.

Lawrie Miller
BA n 4 Weeks
http://geocities.com/BA_in_4_Weeks

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I have a quick question even though it kind of goes off path of the original thread. Would it be useful to have to BA? One in liberal arts and the other is say business. Would it make you that much more marketable - is it worth the effort to go through a liberal arts instead of a concentrated study or is this just a personal preference? I was mainly going off of the bain4weeks website. Just wondering what peoples thoughts on this were.