Greenwich now banned from Australia????

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by George Brown, Oct 11, 2002.

Loading...
  1. George Brown

    George Brown Active Member

  2. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Congratulations to Australia on taking this action.

    In a way it's sad, because it was so unnecessary. The Lord Walsh of Brainy tried to take on a whole nation's higher education system with a challenge of "stop me if you can!" Well, it seems that they could stop him.

    Whether the island is Greek or Australian, hubris still leads to tragedy.

    So what's Greenwich going to do now?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 11, 2002
  3. Someone should start a poll. Caribbean? Switzerland? Africa? Wyoming?

    My "long shot" prediction: Saipan.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Gilligan's Island

    It appears the only recourse for the Island Entity of Greenwich University is Gilligan's Island !

    At least a real professor lives on the island.
     
  5. Peter French

    Peter French member

    Well, the graduates should be OK if they can get a job with the University of Adelaide, as long as they can establish that the degree is not less than that from Pacific Western University - the University has no difficulty in accepting and publicly recognising PWU Doctorates.

    George, it is about time that you came home [check with your wife - she'll agree] and they are plying games in your State in your absence. :)
     
  6. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Gert: Someone should start a poll. Caribbean? Switzerland? Africa? Wyoming?

    John: Unlike so many of the schools with owners in one state (or country) and licensing in another, John Walsh, owner of Greenwich, actually lives on Norfolk Island. Greenwich has its own real building there, in which work 7 or 8 employees -- which probably makes it one of Norfolk's largest non-government non-tourism employers. And, as one of the few lawyers (barristers) there, he also serves as a magistrate.

    The Los Angeles Times ran a long story 3 or 4 weeks ago, on Norfolk's first murder in over 150 years. Fascinating situation, in this remote closed society. And I believe that if and when it ever comes to trial, it will be before Magistrate Walsh.

    So, while I'm not crazy about the way Greenwich presented itself, vis a vis Australian licensing and use of the word 'accreditation,' it seems clearly the case that Walsh is well established as a Norfolkian, and very unlikely to be casting about for another location.

    And I agree with Peter, the man is a fighter.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I do hope this wasn't a Greenwich University student trying to get a tuition refund. <grin>
     
  8. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    This illustrates what I think may be at the heart of the Greenwich problem.

    I once asked why Greenwich didn't consider relocating to Arizona or someplace in the territory of the North Central Association, and seek regional accreditation. (North Central has subsequently taken that road.) As I recall, the answer was that John Walsh preferred to live in Hawaii.

    Now there is the suggestion that Greenwich will remain on Norfolk Island because John Walsh owns a home there.

    The problem that I see is that the institutional interests of Greenwich University are being thoroughly confused with the personal interests of its owner.

    That raises the question of how much institutional identity Greenwich University has apart from and independent of John Walsh. Is it even possible for a credible internationally recognized university to be so closely identified with the whims of one man?

    So Greenwich is faced with a quandary. The Australian government has indicated that they intend to make Greenwich stop operating on Norfolk Island. But Walsh shows no evidence of being willing to move.

    So is he willing to shut down Greenwich? Is he willing to sell it to new owners off the island? Or will he reestablish it elsewhere and operate it remotely as an absentee owner?

    Fighter or not, people a lot more powerful than he is seem willing to pursue this matter, and I think that his options on Australian territory are narrowing quickly. He's gonna have to do something, even if he doesn't like it.
     
  9. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    John Walsh never lived in Hawaii, Bill. During the nearly-two-years my wife and I lived there, he and his partner visited every few months, staying in a bed and breakfast in Hilo.

    We jointly owned (and later sold) the commercial building in Hilo where Greenwich was located.

    Quick example of his barristerial skills at work. Our downstairs tenant was a large printshop with the ugliest sign in Hawaii painted in huge letters on their 80-foot-wide awning. I had been trying for a year to get them to replace or remove it. They said that they were leasing the awning along with the space, and they weren't about to do anything. John was visiting one time, during a heavy rainstorm. (Hilo is the rainiest city in the US.) That ugly awning had about 50 leaks, drenching the sidewalk below. John told the printshop owner that he would have to fix the leaks in the awning, because he was creating a hazardous slippery condition on the sidewalk. The printshop owner said, "No way, man. That's not my awning, it's your awning; you fix it." John feigned reluctance, and said, "Well, I might agree, if you'll put it in writing, so I can show my insurance company." The printshop owner (perhaps not the sharpest poi in the puupuu) defiantly scrawled out a statement that he had no responsibility for that awning. And we replaced it with a lovely new awning the next week.

    Greenwich may well try legal actions, but my prediction would be not. I think they can operate legally as a Norfolkian school (not too many schools of any kind have an Act of Parliament just for them). If I were asked, and I haven't been, my advice would be to drop the doctoral programs and go for DETC or ACICS accreditation, and perhaps pursue a listing in the International Handbook of Universities, and a delisting by the State of Oregon.
     
  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    John:

    "Drop the doctoral program(s) and apply for DETC accreditation" is a common notion to cure such an ailment. Do you have a feel for how much of their business is in the doctoral programs? I would imagine with vanity schools like Kennedy-Western and Century, doctoral degrees could be a rather large part of their sales, perhaps even their core business.

    Of course, one would hope that recognized accreditation and the students it would draw would offset the lost revenues from dropping the doctorates.
     
  11. Peter French

    Peter French member

    Let's wait and see ...

    Walsh has guts, ego and brains, so the game is nowhere near being over. Just consider the following:

    1. The GU Act of Parliament got through - it is law at least in NI.

    2. Most NI-ians would like to NOT be a part of Australia.

    3. The boss of NI at the time of the Act going through was no less that the PM's mate.

    4. The then Federal Minister of Education is no longer the Federal Minister of Education.

    5. Gallagher, the boss of the team that launched the investigation team has been gvien another jom.

    6. The present federal minister Dr Nelson is a medico, and most of his 'ideas' to date have been given the flick by Vice Chaaaancelleors, teachers and the students bodies alike. He is not the guy in charge when GU got its Act through.

    Someone stuffed up big time and it wasn't Walsh - he may not take action, but then if he did/continued to do so, it could be very interesting ...

    This sure ain't over by any means....and in the meantime Adelaide University publicly sticks up for an academic with a PWU - PhD, and no one seems to notice .

    George Brown is back soon - so things will take a turn.:)
     
  12. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Peter: "The present federal minister Dr Nelson is a medico. . ."
    ---------------------

    John Walsh of Brannagh has just sent me an amusing scenario, in which "Doctor Nelson" (who, of course, has 'only' a Bachelor of Medicine degree) is making a speech in Oregon, and is arrested by the OAS police for improperly using the title of "Doctor" in a public place in the state of Oregon.

    To respond to Rich Douglas' question: I have no notion, nor even an educated guess, as to the number of doctoral vis a vis non-doctoral students at Greenwich. During the time of my involvement in 1990-91, we didn't offer Bachelor's degrees, because I felt (and still feel) that there are so many available GAAP-accredited Bachelor's schools that it made (and makes) sense for the vast majority of Bachelor's-wanters to go that route. My dim recollection is that of the 100-or-so students in 1990-91, roughly half were Master's and half Doctoral, but I really cannot be sure.
     
  13. Peter French

    Peter French member

    Quack, quack ...

    Reminds me of an old one from Steve L - the use of the word 'quack' which is what we call doctors out here.

    So ...

    MD [US] = quack
    MB BS [Oz] = quack, quack??

    Maybe ...
     
  14. George Brown

    George Brown Active Member

    And he would use his CPU PhD in Oregon - I'd like to see that!!

    Cheers,

    George
     
  15. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    George: And he would use his CPU PhD in Oregon - I'd like to see that!!

    John: He fought the Australian authorities (and won) to be identified as "Dr." on his passport. At the time Florida had a law comparable to Oregon's (later found unconstitutional by the Florida supreme court), he volunteered to go to Florida, present his passport at the airport, and demand to be arrested for violation of Section 817.566-7 of the Florida Statutes. The people who were fighting the Florida law at the time did not take him up on this.
     
  16. George Brown

    George Brown Active Member

    So are you saying Alan would be far more lenient based on these 'precedents'?

    And I *seriously* doubt any Australian government agency would check out the bona fides of a PhD holder to verify if one qualified to be called 'Dr' on their passport.

    Cheers,

    George
     
  17. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    George: So are you saying Alan would be far more lenient based on these 'precedents'?

    John: No.

    George: And I *seriously* doubt any Australian government agency would check out the bona fides of a PhD holder to verify if one qualified to be called 'Dr' on their passport.

    John: I remember paging through Walsh's rather thick file on this matter. Nearly as thick as the file on the matter of getting Greenwich listed under 'universities' in the Melbourne yellow pages (when there was an office there). Both required quite long and sometimes contentious communications. This was more than 10 years ago; things may well be different now.
     
  18. George Brown

    George Brown Active Member

    How interesting - I would never have thought that the Yellow Pages would be that organised. Did they contact the Office of Higher Education on the matter?

    Cheers,

    George
     
  19. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    I don't recall whom they asked--clearly some government office--and there quite a lot of backing and forthing before they finally agreed to run the listing.
     

Share This Page