Being Overqualified, Degrees disclosure?

I am planning on enrolling in a PH.D. program in MIS. I have a MS in CIS. I also have a bachelors and Masters degrees in civil engineering. It is clear that I shifted from engineering to IT, where I have more than 7 years of experience. My concern with the PH.D. degree,which I am after for self-satisfaction , publish research papers, teach DL programs as part time or hopefully teach in a college when I retire, is that I am afraid to be considered overqualified when applying for jobs at corporations (such as database administration or IT project management positions). Do I have to disclose that I have a PH.D. in my resume when applying for IT jobs that does not require a PH.D. degree?. Should I drop my civil engineering education and just mention that I have a MS in CIS in my resume. I am 31 years of age

thanks,
Adamo

 

Personally, I will not list the PhD, if the job does not require it, most circumstances they will not pay you more.

Some other circumstances will help for you advantage, if you have many candidates with the same degree.

And can be an intimidating tool for many people, and may feel threaten by your credentials, since most of the time the person that would do the hiring will be your future boss, will feel his position is at stake by you and therefore, may not hire you.

 

No absolute answer here, but in general, I believe, in all job categories except politics, all degrees are listed, in part because leaving it out could be construed as inappropriate (especially if there is a 2 or 3 year gap on a resume), and in part because the odds are (my guess) much higher that it will be appreciated (or tolerated) than that it will be looked at negatively. Many companies keep track of their company intellectual assets, whether for their own use or to present to others. "This is Tom Slivovitz; he's a skilled web designer. This is Mary Hotchkiss; she has a doctorate in MIS..."

Politicians seem to avoid mention, perhaps because of (as Herb Caen put it) no one wants to vote for someone smarter than they are. In any event, from Woodrow Wilson to George McGovern to Newt Gingrich, politicians with Ph.D.'s rarely mention it in public.

PS: When you get it, you'll probably want to write it as "Ph.D." not "PH.D."

 

I imagine many job rejections are based primarily on an applicant being over-qualified. I firmly believe that managers love to have well-trained, highly educated people work for them but are put-off, to a certain extent, by those whom they will have to address as "doctor" while being addressed themselves as "Mr./Mrs./Ms." It's an ego-thing.

While in the context of this thread, it might be tempting to not include an earned doctorate on your resume, such action could have adverse reaction. A manager could suspect that you did not provide full disclosure about other things as well. Such action could be perceived by some as falsifying an application, even though having a doctorate "should be" a positive attribute. Providing only specific information that is pertenant to a specific job should be suffice, but it often doesn't.

I don't know what to tell you. The reality is having more qualifications than your boss should make him or her happy, but ego and fear that you might replace him or her often takes presidence over logic.

Being over-qualified is a unique and frustrating position to be in. Hang-on in there.

Jeffrey Levine, Ed.D.

 

And, the Ph.D. may be a negative when applying for some jobs. There was a position open at a local junior college that required a Masters degree. The position was in Human Services in which I have a Ph.D. I was passed over for the job because of the Ph.D. The logic, they would have to pay me more! I suggested that I would accept the job at the Master's level pay, but the would have been in violation of the agreement the school had with the state educational association. Go figure!

 

1. I do not want a job for which I am over-qualified.

2. As someone who has managed large groups of people, and who has hired and fired people, I trust that the people making such decisions can do so effectively. If they think you're over-qualified, you probably are.

3. In the words of Grouch Marx, I wouldn't want to be a member of a club that would have me as a member. If they think I'm over-qualified, then I don't want to work there.

I'll list it anywhere and everywhere appropriate.

 

For financial reasons, a person may need a job where he is over qualified.

It's a sticky area.

 

Thanks for your replies. The IT field has been very good over the last decade, except the last 2 years. Over the many interviews I have been in, managers were usually concerned about the level of experience required by the position and a lot ofthese positions were filled with people who only have a 2-year technical certificate (not even a BS). The market had and still has a shortage. Positions such as database administration and system administration are still getting top pay. I am afraid that a Ph.d. in MIS will hinder me.....any experiences from people in this field?.
Dr. Bear, if I get a Ph.D thro' distance learning, I won't be having work experience gaps in my resume

 

A couple of thoughts on this issue:

1) I've been in management since 1967. Long ago I figured out that the secret to success is to surround yourself with people smarter than yourself. Consequently, when I am hiring a manager, I look for someone who has more expertise in their particular field than I. Having said that, I also realize that not everyone thinks as I do. So yes, there will always be some petty and insecure hiring managers out there who would feel intimidated by having direct reports more highly educated than themselves. Therefore, they will stupidly not hire such well-qualified applicants, considering them "overqualified".

2) The "dumbing down" of educational credentials on resumes comes up in tough economic times when jobs are few and competition keen. My own sense is that if a person earned a degree, it's an important accomlishment, a source of pride, and, of course, a key qualification along with experience and skills. Thus, in my view, it should be on the resume--period. If the level of the degree is beyond the job specification, I still maintain it should be on the resume for the purpose of complete and forthright disclosure. If a company is put off by knowledge, enhanced capabilities, dedication to life-long learning, prior professional development, and a sharp competitive edge, then it's clearly their loss, not the candidate's. It's doubtful that the well-educated applicant would want to work in that environment anyway.

David April, DBA

 

Gotta do what you gotta do...

If I wanted a particular job and if listing a particular degree would prevent me from getting it, I would not list the degree.

Plain and simple.

 

If a position calls for a PhD, and you have one, certainly list it. If, however, it is in a field unrelated to the job, and you show no work gap, then there is no reason to list it on your resume. This is especially true in Silicon Valley right now. Managers are taking an EXTREMELY narrow view of what they want and the resume in front of them (short sighted if you ask me). I've actually seen a a job listing that stated the person should have either a BSCS or a BS in Marketing. I applied, but they absolutely would not interview me because I had an MBA- and my BS was in Management (It was for a technical support manager position- which makes the BS in Marketing really weird).

However, it may be a different story on the actual application. An actual application (which in the professional ranks typically is not filled in till after the offer is made, or in some cases until the first day of employment) is a legal document. However, I believe it is a much smaller crime to not claim a degree than to claim a non-existent degree.

If all you want the degree for is your own grins and giggles, then I see no reason to list it. I am a CMP (Certified Massage Practitioner) in California, and I can assure you that is NOT on my resume!!!


Russ

 

Hey..I bet you are popular with the ladies!

North

 

Some time ago I started a thread (see here) to discuss an interesting article written by Carlton Vogt, (author of the weekly InfoWorld opinion column Ethic Matters) entitled Smart People With 'Dumb' Resumes.

The article posed several questions concerning the ethics of "dumbing down" (as opposed to “puffing up”) resumes. The major issue concerned whether purposely leaving out information (such as work experience or an earned degree) was an acceptable job-seeking tactic.

In my opinion, leaving out a degree from a resume is just as dishonest as claiming to be something you are not. As an employer, I believe I have the right to know this information before making an expensive hiring decision.

Like the mythical business owner in the article, I too have spent countless hours (and a lot of money) interviewing, hiring and training people who were over-qualified for the job I was offering. My experience has been that those who are over-qualified simply do not last on the job—they are always looking for more money or a better opportunity elsewhere. In reality, I prefer to hire someone who is slightly under-qualified for the position, but willing and able to learn. For a little extra training effort, I am rewarded with an appreciative, motivated, and loyal employee.

The key issue, however, is best expressed the following quote from Vogt’s article.

• "But if you're a strict truth-teller, the omission is a clear attempt to deceive, which is what truth-telling is designed to avoid. You are holding yourself out as someone less experienced than you really are. And why would you do that? Primarily because you know that it's important to the person making the decision on whom to interview. How does this differ from including 'experience' or a title you didn't really have?"

 

I'm in the MIS business and also working towards a doctorate. I have a M.Eng in Computer Engineering and a MBA in MIS, I teach part time and work full time for industry.

When I send a resume for a technical position to industry, I don't mention my MBA neither my doctorate work since it seems to turn off some prospect employers for some reason.

When I apply for teaching positions the more degrees I put in my resume the more calls I get.

It seems that the only place where they will recognize your credentials in the MIS field is the academia. A master is more than enough for practical purposes. However, there are few jobs that require such degree like some Goverment Research Jobs.

If you are applying for research positions in Industry, normally the PhD in Computer Science will be preferred.

So besides teaching, I don't see a real need to get a PhD in MIS. You should have two versions of your resume, one for industry and another one for academia.

 

Hope my memory serves me right, but here I go.

One of the Murphy Laws is a "person know to much in a company fire that person" I believe this person is a potential danger to the company in many ways.


Once I was applying for a position, the interviewers told me they were looking for someone, to basically stay in that position for many many years, when I told them what my future goals were, that was it, and I guess they were looking for some one with no aspiration or at least that is what they wanted to hear. So, if you need to work and survive to pay your bills, you will have to do what you have to do to survive period.


What I have learn in my life is, that the job that is for you is not advertised, and if it is, most likely already reserve for someone, at least internally, they would do the interview thing to Comply with EOE.

 

It is a tough question. I agree with some in the sense that it may well be somewhat dishonest not to list all of ones degrees. The other side is that there are those who have mentioned the issue of discrimination over one sort of degree or another. When I applied for jobs out of the military I of course listed all of the positions held. As I was a Chaplain Assistant they were all within the religious realm (but pluralistic). I did once encounter bias against the fact that I had non secular employment. The person said you know we have people of all different religious backgrounds here (implying that I would not be able to fit in because I was Christian and had worked in a ministry setting). I had to explain that the army has a very pluralistic and tolerant environment for ministry in the truest sense of the word.

I know a retired Chaplain and licensed therapist who had an accredited doctorate (D.Min). He went to work in a secular mental health environment and went and whipped out a PhD from Columbia Pacific University so that he could be Dr. So & So with a PhD rather than a DMin as I suspect he felt it travelled a little better in the secular community.

When I complete my doctorate I suspect that I will list it after having sweated to earn it.

North

 

One's conscious (or pride) will make this decision. I will probably list all of my credentials. Question though, does everyone with an RA bachelor degree AND an RA associate degree list the associate degree?

Would this not fall under the same type of scrutiny?

 

I think Gus has it fundamentally right. Leaving anything significant and relevant off your resume is dishonest. This would include work experience and academic credentials closely related to the position for which one has applied. On the other hand, degrees in unrelated (or marginally related) fields could, I think, be omitted. So, for example, a person seeking a job in IT could omit a degree in theology. But I would think a person pursuing a career in IT who also has degrees in engineering (my own situation) should not omit the engineering degrees from his/her resume.

 

As I've said many times before, the associate's degree is uniquely American and is a bit of a "bastard." Meant to recognize those who went to junior college but not on to university, it has developed somewhat of an identity of its own. Still, it remains in most cases something picked up along the way. I never, ever list my two associate's degrees on resumes and applications because that degree is so not a real degree. It seems like puffery to list them.

I don't list my high school diploma for the same reason. Karate school? Same.

 

Unless, of course, disclosure of the degree in theology leads to questions that reveal relevant information such as the individual’s pastoral activities severely hampers his or her ability to travel (should the job require it) or that his or her goal is to dedicate themselves to full time theological pursuits at the first available opportunity. (I'm not picking on theology; it was only cited as an example.) The issue is, who gets to decide what’s relevant?

For example, here is a hypothetical yet extremely plausible exchange during the job interview.

Interviewer: What do you like to do in your spare time? (Don’t they always ask that question?)

Interviewee: (answering truthfully) I like to further my knowledge and education and pursue academic degrees via distance education. (And as we all know altogether too well, if this is true, he or she won’t have a whole lot of time available for other pursuits. )

Interviewer: (impressed and curious) Great! In addition to the degrees listed in your resume, have you earned or are currently pursuing any other degrees?

Interviewee: (flattered) Why, yes! In addition to the degrees listed in my resume, I also have… (fill in your favorite degree or degrees here)

Interviewer: (a tad perplexed and wary) Uh, why didn’t you list the degree(s) on your resume?

• What do you think would be the best (truthful) response?
  (All responses compiled from previous posts in this thread.)
  
  Interviewee:
• I didn’t think it was relevant to the position.
• I have several different versions of my resume; I tailor them to the position for which I am applying.
• I thought it would hurt my chances of getting the job interview, so I omitted it.
• I thought you might discriminate against me.
• I wasn’t sure you would be complying with all fair employment practices.
• I thought you might not want to hire someone that was a lot smarter than you.
• I thought that my credentials might intimidate you, and your fragile ego couldn’t deal with it.[/list=A]
  Interviewer: (to him or herself) I wonder what else this candidate isn’t telling me that I might want to know. I wish I hadn’t wasted the time and money that it took to bring him (or her) this far along in the hiring process. It doesn’t matter; I can’t take a chance on considering this applicant any further. It sure is a shame; someone else was cheated out of a job interview and an employment opportunity because of this candidate’s dishonesty.
  
  
  Employers are severely limited in the information that can be gathered and evaluated prior to employment. As such, any effort (especially on the part of the job applicant) to further limit disclosure of information that is legal and relatively free from liability (such as academic degrees) would not be looked upon favorably.