Why Ed.D. instead of an Ed.S.?

Greetings to all,

I'm curious about those who are pursuing an Ed.D., would not an Ed.S. open the same opportunities since it:

1.) Usually grooms one for an administrative role.

2.) Takes less time.

3.) Is designed for similar vocational positions within the same field that an Ed.D. would aspire to.

I'm not trying to suggest that an Ed.S. is "just as good" as an Ed.D. Rather, I'm simply ignorant about what differences there are in terms of specific vocational opportunities that would result from an Ed.S. when contrasted with an Ed.D.

Is an Ed.S. a terminal degree? Can one teach "education" with that?

 

You did all that work and spent all that money and you have a WHAT?

 

why an EdS if you can do an Edd

I guess I don't understand the question.
To get an EDs you have to do all the coursework required of an EDD, but you get none of the rewards.
If you try to use the EDs toward a doctorate later on, most programs will still want you to take a ton of coursework.
An Eds does not give you the same stature for university posts, superintendent posts, etc.
I say, in most cases it is not worth the effort to get a EDs, or as they are sometimes called Certificates of Advanced Graduate Study. Either stay at the masters level, or go for the Doctorate.
Finally, doen't being abd, give you the same bang for the buck as Eds?
The question is what do you want to do with the certificate (I don't believe anyone calls the Eds a degree)? that you can't do with a masters?
All the best!
ps BS Human Development
MA Counseling
MExtEd Vocational and Adult Ed.
and Cert of Advanced Grad. Study Special Ed.

 

The Ed.S. is a "bastard" designation, much like the associate's degree. Both were born out of incompletion.

So many teachers need to take university credits to retain their licenses. As a result, many go on to earn a master's degree. But still needing to take courses, many went on to take doctoral-level courses. Yet, they really weren't seeking a degree, and as we know, pursuing the doctorate is a whole different ballgame. The Ed.S. was created as a way to (1) recognize that additional credit earned short of earning a real doctorate and (2) create cogent curricula beyond the master's, so teachers weren't taking just anything to keep current. They could get some recognition for taking a series of courses, perhaps even improving their capabilities. Perhaps.

The Ed.S. is sort of an ABD for educators, codified. There seems to be some recognition of it in school districts. (Tom Nixon and others would know), but it's not really a degree. (Although it is often referred to as such. See this from the University of the Pacific:

Completion of the Ed.S. Program in School Psychology degree and credential allows one to practice as a school psychologist in the public schools of California. There is currently a state and national need for well-trained school psychologists. The program requires two years of full-time coursework with fieldwork, and it culminates in an additional third-year internship, which is usually well paid.


The Ed.S., like the associate's, is uniquely American and uniquely gangly.

 

Christopher,

I am currently an Ed.D. candidate at a university that also offers the Ed.S. An Ed.S. does not necessarily open the same opportunities as an Ed.D.

"1.) Usually grooms one for an administrative role."

Most of the people I know with an Ed.S. are school media specialists and counselors (ed psych is a populat Ed.S. specialty). Having worked at universities in California, Utah and Arizona, I know of only a few administrators with an Ed.S. and almost no faculty. Most of the Ed.S. recipients work in the K-12 schools. The Ed.S., as irat says, is another name for the C.A.G.S. (ertificate of advanced graduate study), an intermediate step between a masters and doctorate.

"2.) Takes less time. "

You are absolutely right. Since the Ed.S. is not a doctoral degree, it requires less coursework, no dissertation and usually no comprehensive examination.

"3.) Is designed for similar vocational positions within the same field that an Ed.D. would aspire to."

I would have to disagree with you here. The Ed.D. is, for all intents and purposes, identical to the Ph.D. If one wishes to pursue his or her "vocational position" as a full-time tenure track university faculty, the person would need to have an earned doctorate (Ph.D., Ed.D. or equivalent).

"Is an Ed.S. a terminal degree? Can one teach "education" with that?"

As Rich stated, the Ed.D. is usually a terminal degree for those who do not wish to do the additional work that is required for a doctorate.

For most positions, an Ed.S. would be considered as equivalent to a second masters, but never a doctorate.

Tony

 

Re: why an EdS if you can do an Edd

 

Thank you Irat, etc.

What I'm hearing is that EdS could, in some cases, even be a black mark because it shows that one didn't do the sensible thing and just get the doctorate. Or, it shows that one does not really value the rights, etc. of being called "doc." Instead, it shows that someone just wants to stay at the status quo, possibly at the great cost of doing tons of work. That makes it sound pretty silly.

cg

 

a drop out option

At some colleges if you "give up" on the doctorate, you can be recognized with an EDs. So if you got one from some colleges, people would assume you dropped out of the doctoral program without doing the thesis.
I guess the other side of whether it is a useful certificate, is, how is it recongized in the academic education community? Can you indeed go to other colleges with your EDs or Cert. of Adv. Study and just start working on your doctoral dissertation. The answer is generally no (not specifically). Most colleges will treat an EDs as if it were a second masters, and expect a doctoral applicant to go through all the required doctoral courses (at that college).
All the best!

 

The decision to seek an Ed.S. or an Ed.D. is much the same as choosing an unaccredited vs. a NA vs. a RA institution for a Doctorate – it is a matter of utility. Will it meet your future needs and not just your present one?

The Ed.S. is basically suited only for the K-12 public school system. Even then, other than for a position as School Psychologist (this may only be the case in Florida), there is no position that I am aware of that an Ed.S. trumps a master’s.

Many educators seek an Ed.S. over a 2nd Masters or an Ed.D. because of time and money. If someone had their Master’s in on subject and then wanted to move into Guidance and Counseling, they could

a. Spend a lot of time and money getting a doctorate or
b. get a 2nd master’s and no raise or
c. get an Ed.S. and get certified as a counselor in about half the time it would take to get a doctorate and also get a raise.

Option c. would get them to their desired position sooner and allow them to repay their student loan faster. A doctorate would probably be a losing proposition financially.

The University of Sarasota had an interesting Ed.S./ Ed.D. program. It was like the combination master’s/doctorate programs where one could earn the Ed.S. on the way to the Ed.D.

Regarding transferring Ed.S. courses into an Ed.D. program – the opportunity is very limited. The only programs I found that has this possibility would be Nova Southeastern University and Liberty University. Nova will accept 18 credits (1/2 of the credits of their Ed.S. program), toward their Ed.D. in Organizational Development providing that the Ed.S. was earned at Nova. And, deep inside their catalog, Liberty states that they could accept up to 30 credits of an Ed.S. toward their Ed.D. There may be more, but I have only been looking at distant learning options.

I pursued an Ed.S. rather than the Ed.D. because I planned to stay in the classroom or guidance and the pay for the Ed.S. and the Ed.D. was the same. It didn’t make sense to spend the additional money and time going for the Ed.D..

Ted N.

 

The situation may be different in the
New York City metro area whose schools tend to confer the "Advanced Certificate" or "Professional Diploma" as a post-master's degree instead of the Ed.S. Areas of specialization include but not limited to: Education Administation, Education Technology, Guidance and Counseling, Reading, and School Psychology. l

For salary differential in the New York area, many teachers simply take their "30 above" (their master's) in various and often unrelated course work. Some take a second master's and still others, a post-master's. The post-master's degrees tend to be in an area of specialization different from the individual's earned master's in education (or related field).

While the Ed.S is often structured the same way as Adavced Certificate, Cerificate of Avanced Graduate Study, Professional Diploma, etc. programs, it is, however, my understanding that some graduate programs in education confer ONLY the Ed.S. degree and in that context, the Ed.S. is considered the same as if one earned both a master's and a post-master's degree as would be the case in School Psychology.

ALL School Psychology programs require a minimum of 60-75 graduate credits. In School Psychology, the post-master's degree is generally considered a cohesive whole with the master's degree. Some School Psychology programs do however, confer only the master's degree.

In any case, an Ed.S. is not considered as if one almost completed a doctorate. An Ed.S. degree that is structured similarly to a certificate program (i.e., requires a master's degree in an education speciality or related field for admission) typically results in course work that is too diverse for a doctorate. (Example, a master's in early childhood education and an Ed.S/certificate in Reading). Even a comprehensive Ed.S. (i.e., a cohesive program including the master's component) falls far too short on the number of credits required for a doctorate.

We can argue the merits and demerits of earning specifically a second master's, or a 60 or more credit master's, or a 60 credit or more Ed.S., or a master's +30, or a master's plus certificate, or a master's plus
Ed.S., etc., etc., but in reality all such degrees are useful and functional.

Jeffrey Levine, Ed.D.

 

I think that Rich states it well. Some districts do recognize them but only in terms of the units. Of course that is the same case in many states with master's degrees and doctorates. My local school district pays exactly $100 more per *year* to folks with an M.A./M.Ed. and exactly $200 more per *year* for those with a doctorate. How it helps in terms of salary is the number of units (which can make a significant difference).

There are many schools that don't even offer an Ed.S. The only reason that I could see to get one is if you live in a state that puts value in it for administrative credentials or the like. In California the accepted credential for that is the master's plus an administrative credential (usually earned in concert with one another). Other states are quite different.

One thing to bear in mind is that many folks use an Ed.D. for university teaching positions. Yes, I know the "argument" about the Ph.D. for academics and the Ed.D. for superintendants and the like, but the reality is often quite different. Which do you prefer: the Ed.D. from Columbia or the Ph.D. from Souteast Texas State University?

However, the folks that get Ed.D.s and hope to teach in non-Education departments have my blessing (because you're going to need it).

The short version: Given the choice between the two, I would choose the Ed.D. over the Ed.S. each and every time. More utility and greater acceptance.


Tom

 

I'm finishing my thesis for the MS Ed in Online Teaching and Learning from Cal State Hayward this fall and plan to start the EdS in Jan 2003 at Mizzou Columbia.

Why? I'm in my early 40's and want more background in Education Technology, especialy the Multimedia part. I could do another Masters in Ed Technology but Mizzou is 8 classes, no thesis and a capstone project consisting of a portfolio of my work. Also the cost is a factor for me since I'm paying out of pocket. I can't afford Capella's $3000+ price tag every quarter.

 

Mizzou Columbia actually has three EdS learning track options, unfortunately only one is offered online at this. Technology in Schools, Networked Learning Systems and Training and Development. Wouldn’t the other 2 tracks be useful in private industry? Especially the third option?

Technology in Schools: The Technology in Schools track prepares K-12 educators and other technology professionals for effective and innovative use of technology in educational settings.

Networked Learning Systems: The NLS track prepares technology professionals for the design, development, and implementation of networked learning systems.

Training and Development: The Training and Development (T&D) track is designed for the individual who wishes to work in a business, commercial, industrial, government or higher education environment analyzing performance problems and designing instructional and performance interventions to address those problems.

http://www.coe.missouri.edu/~sislt/