Value of an LLM ??

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by ahodgers, Aug 25, 2002.

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  1. ahodgers

    ahodgers New Member

    Some advice please and a question for all if you dont mind

    I have just recently completed an MBA distance learning (Oxford Brookes University) and am still in a study mode. A colleague recently suggested that I should try an LLM in Commercial law again by distance learning (University of Northumbria at Newcastle UK) , he suggests that it would be a good qualification to have with an MBA.

    I currently work as an independent consultant and do a lot of business within Europe in the field of market development however I dont know much about the value of having an LLM !

    Would it add significant credability ??

    Does it matter that it is done by DL ??

    If I were to rejoin the corporate world would it have a value in the US ??





    Can anybody advise ??

    Thks for any replies

    Regards

    Andrew
     
  2. Nosborne

    Nosborne New Member

    The first question, I suppose, is "Can you even GET an LLM?"

    The University of London says that you must have a good (IIii)first degree in law but that they will allow other graduates to enroll if they have "appropriate" undergraduate training. I don't know what that means, but I suspect that they want significant work in legal subjects as such.

    American schools seem to have the same requirement, viz a J.D. or LLB with a good grade point average or honors.

    I should also state that both English and American schools will accept a first degree in law even from a non-common law jurisdiction.

    You might want to do a "Senior Status" LLB from the University of London first. It can be done by D/L and takes two academic years, minimum. It is a Qualifying Law Degree in England and Wales. I do not know if the Irish Bar would recognize it. Scotland does not.

    I hope this helps?

    Nosborne, JD
     
  3. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Nosborne is right. Typically, one gets a law degree (J.D.) first in general law and then would pursue an LLM (Master of Laws) in order to specialize in an area of law.

    Tony
     
  4. ahodgers

    ahodgers New Member

    Value of an LLM

    Thks guys for the reply

    TO answer yr question, Yes you can do the LLM without a primary law degree or a primary degree that had a law concentration. The univesity in question conducts a 2 week conversion course for non law students. MY school and this school also have strong ties with each other and I am told that with my primary qualification (Diploma) and my MBA) I should have no problem with admission.

    Just need to figure out if its worth it ???

    I dont want to go to the bar or study law in general but am considering specialising to augment my current experience
     
  5. 9Chris

    9Chris New Member

    What was the MBA program like at Oxford Brookes?
     
  6. Nosborne

    Nosborne New Member

    What school will give a PgDL in Law in two weeks? Most English schools want a full year; there IS no Diploma in the United States...

    Nosborne, JD
     
  7. ahodgers

    ahodgers New Member

    Nosborne,

    I think I should have made it more explicit, my mistake

    The 2 week conversion course is the precursor to the programme, the programm is then a full 2 years. My diploma is a postgraduate diploma.
     
  8. ahodgers

    ahodgers New Member

    Oxford brookes MBA

    9chris,

    In answer to your question

    The programme at Oxford Brookes is called the Oxford Open MBA programme (open meaning DL). It is a good programme a full 2 years with no break. It is mostly continous assessment based with an assignment approx every 4-6 weeks 15 assignments in all with an exam at the the end of each year plus a 20,000 word dissertation. The DL course books are excellent

    Not easy but worth it, its getting a good reputation in the UK. The quality of teaching at the business school was awarded 25/25 by the QAA in the UK. The university was also voted 'The Times' Top New university 6 years in a row 1996-2002

    Hop this answers your question
     
  9. StevenKing

    StevenKing Active Member

    I, too, have been looking at Northumbria's LLM, but in medical law. I have been corresponding with a physician in the US that completed the degree to make himself more marketable.

    Kindly,
    Steven King
     
  10. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    It seems that some UK schools will admit people with no law degree whatsoever to an LL.M. program. This happened to an old a.e.d. participant, Emir Mohammed, formerly a faculty member at the unaccredited Robert Kennedy College (which was formerly Robert Kennedy University, perhaps the first time ever that a university has downgraded to a college).

    The last I checked, Emir had a B.A. in Philosophy from a Canadian university and an LL.M from the University of Strathclyde, Scotland. No amount of rationilization will turn a B.A.- Philosophy into a law or law-related degree. I'm not saying if this is good or bad, I'm just saying that's the way it is.


    Bruce
     
  11. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying here. I know about eight engineers who went on to get a JDs in So. California (the last being recently at UCLA). All returned to engineering because of salary considerations.
     
  12. Nosborne

    Nosborne New Member

    Aha. Since an LLM is a one year program both in the UK and in the US, it makes sense that a non-law grad could get an LLM in two years; one year for the basics and one year for the advanced LLM stuff.

    There's no equivalent here in the US, though. You'd have to get the first degree in law before being admitted to an LLM program here.

    As to how valuable such a degree might be, I think there's a difference between the UK and the US.

    As I understand it, in the UK one needs to be a solicitor to convey real estate, draft a will, and engage a barrister. One needs to be a barrister only to appear in the higher courts on behalf of a client. (Solicitors and barristers both may appear in the lower courts.)

    In this system, extensive legal training would be valuable even for a non lawyer. Such a person can draft legal documents and give legal advice in any area where he's competent to do so.

    In the U.S., on the other hand, giving legal advice and drafting legal documents are defined as practicing law and a person must be a licensed attorney to do these things, even if he's working inside a corporation or for a government agency. A non lawyer might not derive as much benefit from an LLM in the US as in the UK.

    Nosborne, JD
     
  13. Homer

    Homer New Member

    One thing's for sure; there's a =huge= disparity in pricing. The initial post picqued my curiosity so I checked out the web site. Unless I'm severely mistaken, it appears as if the LL.M. in question here costs less than 5k (USD).......for the entire program! An LL.M. from an ABA-accredited school would cost =at least= 4 times that amount. Tuition for an Illinois LL.M., for example, is over $23k.
     
  14. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    In California an LDA (Licenced Document Assistant) can draft/prepare legal documents such as a trust. However they can't give advice. LDAs evolved from paralegals and are licenced by the state. I do not know if there are any degrees in this fairly new profession.
     
  15. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    Here is more info on educational requirements for California LDAs:

    From: http://www.calda.org/pages/faq.htm

    "18. What are the educational requirements for registering? [Section 6402.1] To be eligible to apply for registration under this chapter as a legal document assistant, the applicant shall possess at least one of the following:
    (a) A high school diploma or general equivalency diploma, and either a minimum of two years of law-related experience under the supervision of a licensed attorney, or a minimum of two years experience, prior to January 1, 1999, providing self-help service.
    (b) A baccalaureate degree in any field and either a minimum of one year law-related experience under the supervision of a licensed attorney, or a minimum of one year of experience, prior to January 1, 1999, providing self-help service.
    (c) A certificate of completion from a paralegal program that is institutionally accredited but not approved by the American Bar Association, that requires successful completion of a minimum of 24 semester units, or the equivalent, in legal specialization courses.
    (d) A certificate of completion from a paralegal program approved by the American Bar Association. "

    Of course a LLM diploma hanging in one's office would sure beat out a high school diploma.
     
  16. Diamond_Head

    Diamond_Head New Member

    I think the value of the LLM depends on your particular goals. If you are not planning to become an attorney, you probably don't have to concern yourself with all of the licensing requirements. If you are working in a particular field -- such as international trade as an example -- then a company certainly could find your LLM in that particular field very attractive and marketable. I would recommend that you simply find out from colleagues in your particular region how they might value it.
     

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