Getting a Doc: Saybrook or Union?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by BlackBird, Aug 22, 2002.

Loading...
  1. BlackBird

    BlackBird Member

    Would love your input.

    I am wrapping up getting a MA in Counseling Psychology for licensure in FL. Because most clinical psych. docs require to retake much of your Masters work and make you take another 1500-2000 clinical hours, this then extends your doc in terms of years (5-8 years).

    For that reason I am seriously looking at Saybrook or Union Inst.
    I am looking to do a non-clinical Ph.D. in Psychology. I would like your input.

    Saybrook accepts 18 credit hours of your Masters towards the Ph.D. in Psych. Union accepts ZERO!

    Union has been around for approx. 40 years and is well known. Saybrook has been around for about 30 years and is lesser known.

    Union has a "brick and mortar" campus. Saybrook only adminstrative offices.

    A non-clinical Ph.D. takes around 3 years on average.

    I have looked at Walden and Capella but see negative things.

    Capella is exploding in growth but is hardly known. Capella accepts up to 10 classes (30 semester/50 quarter credits), but ups the amount of classes you have to take, I believe.

    Walden seems to be behind these other three schools. I spoke to the head of their Psych. dept and found that person abrasive and hard to get along with as far as I could tell. I wonder if this is typical of how they treat their students... ???? I am a mid-life person and my kind of place is the place that is glad to get my money and bends over backward to keep me as their student.

    Anyhow... any input is appreciated. I used to hang out when this was a newsgroup. I used to tangle with Levicoff and coined the label "Lord Levicoff." He taught me to not take him serously nor the net. :D I am thankful. I hope Dr. Bear (formerly Dr. US-Heriott U.) is doing well. I imagine he is still doing his pilgrimages to Tibet to see the Lama Man! Bear is a good man. :cool:

    Any thoughts on my dilemma?

    Thanks in advance.

    BlackBird
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 22, 2002
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Some thoughts....

    I'm not so sure Union has a stronger reputation than Saybrook. They're both pretty unknown.

    Union's degree is likely more flexible than Saybrook's. Saybrook was founded on one, new form of psychology: humanistic.

    Walden is tough, but the one psych student of theirs I knew thoroughly enjoyed his program.

    Union has a "brick and mortar" campus? For doctoral learners? Where?

    I suspect none of the schools you mention stands out particularly from the others. Choose the one that offers what you need. Consider subject matter, degree program structure, residencies, costs, learning methodologies, etc.

    Finally, consider Argosy University and the Fielding Graduate Institute. If I had my "druthers," I druther go there than any of the schools you mention. When I decided on Union a very long time ago, Fielding was my very close second choice. More structured than Union, but probably has both a stronger reputation and program. I think.
     
  3. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    I would largely agree with Rich's posting above in that neither Union nor Saybrook is especially well known. Also, the humanistic orientation of Saybrooks programs is pervasive and so I would advise you to read up on this thoroughly before signing on with them and becoming immersed in this set of theories. Union, because it's a "design your own program" sort of place is much more flexible in regard to this sort of theoretical orientation. Whatever you decide, good luck.
    Jack
     
  4. Howard

    Howard New Member

    IMHO you need to ask yourself what you want to accomplish with the degree and then make sure that the degree from the school will allow you to do this.

    If you are going into private practice you need to make sure you can obtain licensure with the degree from whichever school.

    But, in any case, good luck.
     
  5. levicoff

    levicoff Guest

    Lord Levicoff? Moi?

    One thing you did not specify is whether you'll be seeking licensure as a counselor or a psychologist (Florida does both). The criterion for counselor licensure is a master's degree; the criterion for licensure as a psychologist in most states is an APA-approved doctorate.

    The Fielding Institute is the only school with APA approval. It's that simple.

    You can become licensed in many states with a Ph.D. from Union or Saybrook. I've heard far more horror stories coming out of Saybrook in terms of towing their philosophical line; Union will give you much more flexibility there.

    Over the past few years, Union has tightened its curriculum to meet the APA model, even going so far as to split the Graduate College into two separate schools: The School of Interdisciplinary Arts & Sciences, and the School of Professional Psychology. One may major in psychology through either program, but the former is for those who are not seeking licensure (they follow fields such as transpersonal or developmental psychology), while the latter follows a more structured APA-oriented model and is for persons seeking licensure as psychologists. Nonetheless, despite Union's successful track record, they are still not APA approved per se, so you will have to run through more hoops at licensure time than you would with Fielding.

    Argosy does have APA approval, but it is through the former School of Professional Psychology (based in Atlanta), not the more well-known distance programs that are at the former University of Sarasota.

    Also consider whether you prefer a non-profit or proprietary (profit making) program. It's strictly philosophical, but I lean toward no-profit programs as being more credible. Union is non-profit, Argosy and Walden are proprietary. I am not aware of the corporate status of Fielding or Saybrook.

    Um, Lord Levicoff has spoken. Thanks for a trip down memory lane, and welcome to DegreeInfo.com. You will never escape me. :D
    _________________________

    The appropriate disclaimer: I did my Ph.D. at Union, so obviously I favor them. But if I had done my doctorate in psychology, I probably would have leaned toward Fielding, solely on the basis of their APA approval.
     
  6. Tom

    Tom New Member

    Re: Lord Levicoff? Moi?

     
  7. GME

    GME New Member

    <<the criterion for licensure as a psychologist in most states is an APA-approved doctorate>>

    I think that may be less accurate than it once was. It is my understanding that many (most?) states now require graduation from a RA doctoral program (FL is one that, I think, still requires graduation from an APA school).

    I believe the APA itself now will let grads of RA doc programs join as full individual members, which may not have been the case in the past.

    Of course, the one thing anyone must do is check the regs for the state in which they wish to practice.

    Regards,

    GE
     
  8. BlackBird

    BlackBird Member

    I appreciate your input, folks!... And...

    Guys... I really appreciate the feedback you all are giving me.

    First, I'm new at this kind of format of "inputting" through this kind of discussion group interface (GUI anyone?). So if it does not look good, sorry in advance.

    All of you have very good points. Some I've looked at and others are new angles I haven't thought about.

    Here is how I see it. ("Bear" with me):

    Licensed Clinical Psychologists (Ph.D. or Psy.D.) are hailed as the gods and goddesses of counseling/assessment, testing, etc.
    Other than being looked down by Psychiatrists (M.D.) docs they (or the APA) is continually trying to sow up through legislation their piece of the pie (they want it all...though Social Workers have powerfully invaded this terrain and with some disdain psychologists reluctantly welcome them into the fray).

    Licensed Mental Health Counselors (L.M.H.C.) or L.P.C.'s for Licensed Professional Counselors are in essence the same thing depending what state you are in (My Masters is towards the L.M.H.C.). This permits you to work as a counselor with "minimum qualifications" (probably according to APA input and political lobbying). The same can be said pretty much for L.M.F.T.'s (Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist).

    Psychologists have promoted that only Psychologists are legally able to give assessment tests. What I have discovered is that this is a "house of mirrors" illusion. Testing companies (like PAR and others) will license their test to Masters level clinicians with only proof of credentials. The point comes that in the case of a lawsuit, would a Masters level be as credible as a Lic. Psychologist? Probably the credibility will be in favor of the Psychologist who has taken more classes in assessment. It does not mean the Masters level cannot show competency through training, experience, or supervision. So this reason to go into a Clinical Psych. doc. does not hold up. For Masters level folks can also do assessment if properly trained.
    Other than some basic testing in personality or career issues (burnout, etc.), I'm not interested in being a test-giver. My interests is some teaching, speaking, writing, and developing a private practice.

    The primary benefit for a clinical psych. credential (a la APA) is that you can get away more authoritatively with your opinion on test/assessment matters and "maybe" your clinical opinion because your academics had 500-1000 hours more of clinical internship. Perhaps in the future, as in New Mexico, they will have prescriptive powers for psychotropic drugs... that will mean more schooling to add that certification (usually another year or two...ouch!).

    A downside of a clinical psych. doc is that it takes so damn long to get and then you have one to two years more for supervised clinical work after graduation. Typically you go for 3 years of classes. One year for a thesis (if a Ph.D., Psy.D. slightly less)... and then two years of supervised work... 6 long years before you can sit for the state boards! Sometimes it is longer. This situation becomes more exacerbated by the fact that the APA has a racket (do I have an issue here? :D ) that they make you re-take most of your Masters subjects if you have one already in counseling/mental health/social work. Classes like: Multiculturism, Counseling Theories, Group Therapy, Human Sexuality, Psychopathology, Ethics and Issues, etc. have to be taken all over again. I had a dean of an already mentioned APA school corroborate this to me as the "APA's racket."

    I would gladly consider a clinical psych. APA program if it meant either testing out of or getting credit for the stuff already covered. That would make the trip more palatable and shorter.

    So... I've wondered if it would do just the same if I just obtained a Ph.D. in Psychology (non-clinical, non-APA) so that the public would see me as having higher credentials (Dr. BlackBird?) even though my licensure is at the Masters level? Most of the public doesn't give "a damn" about what kind of Psychology Ph.D. you are. This is my perspective. Correct me if I am wrong. It seems the APA doc would be for mostly peer-pleasing, which most of the time they are only covering their own backs and have no loyalty to you anyway. That peer circle is a small one in comparison to the general population you would be serving (legally).

    So give me your thoughts, guys. Try to poke holes in it. That would help me to see if I'm missing things in my decision. ;)

    Lord Levicoff
    ... I would be interested if you could share those horror stories about Saybrook (without mentioning any names of individuals). They claim they are very open-minded and open to diverse and alternative views. Do they impose their Humanism as a religious order? :eek:

    Here are some interesting points to add to your comments:

    Argossy in Tampa is not yet APA credentialized.

    Union has not even yet formally applied for APA accreditation (as of about a month ago when I corresponded with a dean there). They are preparing to apply. So APA accreditation is a while off.

    Capella is farther in the APA process. They have already applied. I don't know the current status.

    Walden and Saybrook don't intend to apply for APA accreditation as far as I'm aware.

    I apologize if my thoughts are not as clear as they can be. I am typing "off the cuff."

    Again, thank you for the feedback you all are giving me. I certainly appreciate it. It may also help others here.

    BlackBird
    :eek:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2002
  9. David Williams

    David Williams New Member

    Re: I appreciate your input, folks!... And...




    Hello Blackbird,

    You’ve received a wealth of wisdom in the responses to date. I agree with the suggestion that if you take the psychology doctorate plunge you should restrict yourself to APA-approved programs. This isn’t just for “peer-pleasing” as you will encounter many limitations otherwise. While I joined this forum after I started on a DL degree in IS I’m a licensed psychologist, a supervisor in an APA-approved internship program, and I frequently respond to the sorts of queries you present. So if you do a search on my name you’ll be able to access numerous discussions among those of us who share an interest in this arena. The issue about repeating courses isn’t an APA standard; rather, it is the policy of the individual doctoral program. Historically, counseling psychology programs are more accepting of persons who already possess masters degrees than clinical psychology programs. So if you’re not locked into DL and you have the freedom to go bricks and mortar, I’d suggest you consider doctoral programs in counseling psychology. FWIW I received my doctorate in counseling psychology 20 years ago, the licensure is the same, and the bias that existed at that time has long since dissipated. To be sure there is a pecking order but the rung order has changed. If you go bricks and mortar think about selecting a school with multiple applied programs. My university had doctoral programs in clinical, counseling and school psychology where students routinely crossed boundaries which offered a terrific coursework array. My dissertation was a psychophysiological study and I had people from the clinical and school programs on my committee.

    Good luck and feel free to keep your questions coming.

    David
     
  10. GME

    GME New Member

    <<A downside of a clinical psych. doc is that it takes so damn long to get and then you have one to two years more for supervised clinical work after graduation. Typically you go for 3 years of classes. One year for a thesis (if a Ph.D., Psy.D. slightly less)... and then two years of supervised work... 6 long years before you can sit for the state boards! Sometimes it is longer. >>

    Here in CA, the main master's level clinicians are MFT's and LCSWs. Not sure of the SWs, but MFT's must attend a 2 year prog (or equivalent - some schools have a year round prog that gets you through in 18 months) and then accrue 3000 hours of clinical experience (highly motivated students can pick up somewhere around half of these hours during schooling). They cannot sit for licensure until 2 calendar years after graduation. So their entire training package is 4 years.


    <<I would gladly consider a clinical psych. APA program if it meant either testing out of or getting credit for the stuff already covered. That would make the trip more palatable and shorter.>>


    I'm in a CA MFT master program (my degree will be in clinical psy). One of the things that attracts me to Capella is, as I undertstand it, that they will accept up to 50 hours of course work completed at an RA school toward their 125 hour doctorate. Does anyone know if I understand this correctly? If so, I wonder if applying for APA will cause them to change this policy.

    <<So... I've wondered if it would do just the same if I just obtained a Ph.D. in Psychology (non-clinical, non-APA) so that the public would see me as having higher credentials (Dr. BlackBird?) even though my licensure is at the Masters level? Most of the public doesn't give "a damn" about what kind of Psychology Ph.D. you are. This is my perspective. Correct me if I am wrong. It seems the APA doc would be for mostly peer-pleasing, which most of the time they are only covering their own backs and have no loyalty to you anyway. That peer circle is a small one in comparison to the general population you would be serving (legally). >>

    I have at least 2 instructors who are exactly as you describe - holder's of Phd's (psychology) and licensed as MFTs. Plus there are a growing number of doctoral programs in marriage and family therapy, so you are likely to see an increasing number of 'Dr' therapists who are not psychologists.

    Not to mention the famous (and controversal) radio therapist 'Dr. Laura' who is in fact a CA MFT with a doctorate in something like sociology.

    The main drawback is a practical one - the 'elevator explaination' of what you do. 'I'm a psychologist' is easy. 'I'm a licensed clinical social worker or marriage and family therapist or licensed mental health counselor' is not as well understood by the public. 'I'm a psychotherapist' works, but here in CA the APA insists that only licensed psychologists can call themselves psychotherapists. The CA MFT board disagrees and CA MFTs sometimes style themselves psychotherapists.

    On a practical end, there are actually more opportunities for master's level (and 'Dr' MFT's) than for Psychologists, at least out here. Strictly economics - MFTs generally bill at a lower rate than psychologists, so insurance companies prefer them.
     
  11. BlackBird

    BlackBird Member

    Thanks David.... I'm battling...

    David,
    Thanks for your valuable thoughts.

    Here is my quandry (sp?) and where my difficulty resides:

    I'm not getting younger (I'm 49 now).

    I primarily would like a private practice, teach, speak, and write.
    I'm not really interested in agency work or heading one up... too many politics, turf battles, and silly games for me.

    If I can land a Counseling Pych. Doc (APA) as you say, it will be 4-5 more years of academics. I know in my neck of the woods the U. of Miami has one but does not accept transfer credits from a Masters though they require one in counseling before entering. I've interacted with U. of S. Florida and they say they accept some but want very strong research experience. I don't know about U. of Florida or FSU (both are very difficult to get in). Argossy U. claims they accept up to 30 semester credits towards a Psy.D.. In Tampa, they are not yet APA.

    So my difficulty is in the length of program and my aging process... :D and
    that it be in Florida :cool:
    or DL :p
    and that I can get some credit for my 60 hours Masters degree in Counseling Psych.
    :rolleyes:

    Besides putting in more pre-graduation internship hours, A Psy.D. or Ph.D. that is APA primarily is focused towards doing accessment/testing. I won't be doing much of that since I lean more towards plain counseling in a private practice setting.

    I admit... I am very frustrated with this process of deciding. I'm not sure how to resolve it. I wish schools like Fielding would give credit but they are not clear when you talk with them. They are very vague in not "having to cover same material." I don't think they waive courses...

    Well, sorry, but this is why I'm asking you guys. This decision is not a light one or an easy one. I am committing to more years of poverty and debt going the APA route even though it would be more desired if it had the right ingredients.

    A frustrated BlackBird... :confused::cool:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2002
  12. BlackBird

    BlackBird Member

    Originally posted by GME, (BlackBird response in Bold):
    Here in CA, the main master's level clinicians are MFT's and LCSWs. Not sure of the SWs, but MFT's must attend a 2 year prog (or equivalent - some schools have a year round prog that gets you through in 18 months) and then accrue 3000 hours of clinical experience (highly motivated students can pick up somewhere around half of these hours during schooling). They cannot sit for licensure until 2 calendar years after graduation. So their entire training package is 4 years.

    It is basically the same here in Florida... it is possible you guys got the idea from us ;)


    I'm in a CA MFT master program (my degree will be in clinical psy). One of the things that attracts me to Capella is, as I undertstand it, that they will accept up to 50 hours of course work completed at an RA school toward their 125 hour doctorate. Does anyone know if I understand this correctly? If so, I wonder if applying for APA will cause them to change this policy.

    I spoke ages ago to Dr. Brian Austin of Capella. He said then that they could not guarantee the 50 quarter credit/30 semester credit transfer policy after APA approval. :confused:


    I have at least 2 instructors who are exactly as you describe - holder's of Phd's (psychology) and licensed as MFTs. Plus there are a growing number of doctoral programs in marriage and family therapy, so you are likely to see an increasing number of 'Dr' therapists who are not psychologists.

    Yeah... I would love to interact with some of these "avante-garde" folks. :)

    Not to mention the famous (and controversal) radio therapist 'Dr. Laura' who is in fact a CA MFT with a doctorate in something like sociology.

    My understanding is that her Ph.D. is not related to therapy but was a previous degree in physiology. She has taken a lot of flack for this since they question the ethics of a non-related degree. This would be different than what we are talking about, i.e., a Ph.D. in a counseling related field.

    The main drawback is a practical one - the 'elevator explaination' of what you do. 'I'm a psychologist' is easy. 'I'm a licensed clinical social worker or marriage and family therapist or licensed mental health counselor' is not as well understood by the public. 'I'm a psychotherapist' works, but here in CA the APA insists that only licensed psychologists can call themselves psychotherapists. The CA MFT board disagrees and CA MFTs sometimes style themselves psychotherapists.

    I agree... that "psychotherapist" or anything that has "Psycho" in it is being taken over by the APA trademark and patenting police. :mad:

    On a practical end, there are actually more opportunities for master's level (and 'Dr' MFT's) than for Psychologists, at least out here. Strictly economics - MFTs generally bill at a lower rate than psychologists, so insurance companies prefer them.

    I've heard that from you guys and some around here. I guess that HMO's don't want to pay what APA Doc's charge? I heard more and more that therapists are not even taking insurance any more since it is a big pain anyway you cut it. They only take cash or check. Thanks for the input! :)
     
  13. David Williams

    David Williams New Member

    Re: Thanks David.... I'm battling...

    Blackbird,

    I can appreciate your dilemma; I would have found it very difficult to even consider a doctorate at age 49. While I'm doing an online IS degree it is really just avocational and I only take one course a term. I've had interns in their mid-50s which means they were about your age when they started but, at the end of the day, it is a major sacrifice. Getting an MA in counseling psychology in your late 40s is, in and of itself, quite an achievement. And, from a financial perspective it may not be worth the effort. I had a colleage who went to med school in the Phillipines when he was 50 which must have taken an incredible amount of moxie. More than I can imagine.

    Please feel free to post or contact me with any questions you think I might be able to address.

    David
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2002
  14. BlackBird

    BlackBird Member

    Again, thanks Dr. Dave...

    David,
    Thanks for the affirmation, Dr. Dave! Yup... I gunned this baby. Through half of it, I worked 45-50 hours and carried 15-18 semester credits. I then lost my job. I mortgaged my home and then just finished all coursework and my 1000 hour internship in three semesters plus a summer (this summer). Just have comps ahead now. Whew! I'm tired! To say the least, I wondered if I was :eek: maniacal :eek: . Got two kids in college and one last one finishing H.S.

    I feel that getting that Ph.D. elevates my credibility another notch. Until then, I'm just a "masters level clinician" and probably won't get much respect other than from folks I help and other "laymen." I primarily want to get a few books out that have been in"gestation" for a while. That Ph.D. might help to get more acceptance in writing and the consequential public speaking and appearances. Plus some teaching at the local college scene, perhaps... not to mention that private practice. I know not everyone makes it in private practice. As a matter of fact, from my interaction with "counselors" (successful and non-successful in private practice) those who don't have good private practices are "doomsday" about such. Those that have great practices, dont share much since they have a corner and they might elicit colleage jealousy and attacks in the form of blame-finding to report to State board. I have a friend who is a gooood counselor and he says that he has all the clients he wants. He does so part-time and makes more than his Director job. He is a Masters level clinician.

    Anyhow... David, thanks for your kind comments. It is difficult. I think of what the aging W.F. Buckley Jr. said to someone when they ask him how he was doing? He said, "I'm decomposing... but other than that, I'm fine!" :D

    Any insight from you is greatly welcome. Same for others on this forum/thread. ;)

    Blackbird
    :rolleyes:
     
  15. BlackBird

    BlackBird Member

    Calling Lord Levicoff...

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2002
  16. lineman

    lineman New Member

    Dear Blackbird:

    I am 43 and hope to earn a MA in counseling. Could you please inform me on the process, after earning the degree is it possible to gain employment as you are earning the 3000 hours of experince needed for licensure? Is it hard to find a proper place to volunteer to earn the 3000 hours if you can not find employment? I hope to work for MHMR but I will be pushing 50 also when I earn the degree and the hours needed for licensure, will anyone want to hire a 50 year old fresh out of Graduate School? Thanks for any input you might have for me:


    Lineman:
     
  17. BlackBird

    BlackBird Member

    Mid-Life Choices... ;)

    Lineman,

    You are V E R Y young! (I'm closer to 50 than you!) ;)

    Here is how it generally works... (I say that carefully since each state has its own rules. My state (Florida) has one of the toughest licensure processes around. Other states are copying Florida's standards. This is so partially because FL is a sunshine state where everybody's uncle wants to retire and practice. Therefore, the state makes it harder for practice here. That's at least one reason.

    Well, in response to your question...

    My understanding is that you need a total of 3000 supervised clinical hours. You first do 1000 hours while doing your Masters. It is a requirement for graduation. Once you have graduated you have to send all your documentation to the state office showing you have all the Master's requirements fulfilled plus your 1000 hours done. At this point or soon after you provide the state with you Post-masters' supervision site infor and your licensed supervisor's info. Once your get your status that you are a "Masters degree graduate intern" (or something like this) with your approved site and supervisor, then you start accumulating hours towards your last 2000 hours to qualify you for the licensure board exam. You can received a salary or you can even develop your own private practice as long as you fulfill your supervision requirements.

    There is a catch (those sneaky licensure boards)... You cannot cram those 2000 hours to get finished early. You can work 50-60 hours per week (like I did for my 1000 hours) but only 20 hours/week will count spread over 2 years. The state (of Florida) wants you to have two years of experience (what a magnamanous spirit :p ).

    Once you have documentaton that you have completed your post Masters 2000 hours then you can apply to take the state board test for licensure.

    Like I said... we have (and probably a few other states) some of the toughest requirements for almost every regulated profession.
    Your state might be easier... however the trend is towards the kind of standards I've shared with you (not to mention that you have all the other minutae of details for qualification pre-masters: group therapy hours, student process group involvement, specific course content criteria, specific quantity of courses, etc. ...ad nauseum).

    I hope this helps, Lineman! :cool:

    BlackBird
    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
  18. lineman

    lineman New Member

    Dear Blackbird:

    Yes your information is very helpful. Thank You:

    Good Luck with your quest for a PhD:

    Thank You:
    Lineman
     
  19. levicoff

    levicoff Guest

    Re: Calling Lord Levicoff...

    Responding to Blackbird:

    I don't remember many of the specific horror stories regarding Saybrook. I counseled a few Saybrook students by e-mail a few years ago, and don't recall whether any of them made it to the then-newsgroup (AED).

    You can, however, do a search on old newsgroup messages about Saybrook, of which there are many - they can be pulled up at http://www.dejanews.com (which is now part of Google).

    Regarding program length at Union, it all depends on the individual. Yes, the psych majors tend to take longer than the arts/sciences majors, but that's because they want to score their brownie points with their respective licensure boards.

    Last I heard, the official average at Union was 36-42 months for a doctorate. I can tell you that of theten people in my entry colloquium, two of us did the program in the minimum two years. Most people did graduate in the 36-42 month time frame, and one took over five years. Those who can get throught the program in or close to the minimum time are either very systematic in their program planning (and not too many people can pull that off) or have had previous experience in a nontraditional degree program (I went into Union from what was then Vermont College of Norwich University, where the M.A. program model similar was similar to the Union Ph.D. model).
     
  20. simon

    simon New Member

    Blackbird,

    It appears from your postings that prior to considering which school to atend, it may be beneficial to guage the degree of your motivation and readiness to enter into doctoral studies. The primary issue centers around whether you are presently ready to endure the time, energy and financial committment required for doctoral studies whether in psychology or a related discipline.

    It also appears that you are seeking as short a doctoral program as possible, that will not bog you down for countless years. The issue of interminable hours of internships, proficiency in administering assesments, national psychology licensing exams and a heavily research oriented dissertation process do not seem to appeal to your current needs. This rules out clinical and counseling psychology.

    Keep in mind that a doctorate in any clinical area of psychology in the state of Florida needs to be APA approved in order to refer to yourself as a Psychologist. Therefore, Union, Capella or Walden would not meet this requirement. Fielding is very research oriented and will take many years for the average individual to complete.

    When and if you decide to pursue doctoral studies you may want to consider a doctoral program in Professional Counseling. Capella or Argosy offer relatively short term doctoral programs that can be completed within two to three years. Possessing a doctorate in professional counseling may not carry the "weight" of a Clinical Psychology degree but will provide the prestige of being alluded to as doctor, to engage in private practice, professional and executive coaching,conducting training programs and seminars and in writing books and articles, if one has compertencies in these areas.

    In addition, if one passes the National Clinical mental Health Counseling Examination which is required for practice as a Mental Health Counselor in Florida there is no need to be concerned about sitting for any additional licensing exams in psychology.

    Age is not the promary barrier to ultimate professional attainment as is the level of readiness and committment to undertake and complete a grueling educational process.

    Best of luck.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2002

Share This Page