Northcentral vs. Greenwich University (Norfolk Island)

Hi there,

I have found two degree programs (Business area PhD) which interest me in terms of content, as well as affordability. Neither one is accredited, however, Northcentral is in the candidacy stage at this time. I have been saved from making horrific choices at diploma mills before due to the diligence of members of this forum - many thanks! So, I am appealing to you for input once more.

I have reviewed current threads about Northcentral and they are positive. Also, the university is going through the self-study presentation as part of its accreditation candidacy at this time.

No such luck with Greenwhich (NI)unfortuntately, and discussion related to that school has been rather bleak. It appears that Australian authorities will not accredit it for a variety of reasons. Normally I would simply forget about such a school, except for two things:

- Dr. Bear indicated that when he was involved with Greenwich it was a decent school seeking accreditation, and that many of the original faculty were still involved.

- (and a lesser reason perhaps) I am really interested in the coursework for their Ph.D. in Business Ethics.

I would prefer Greenwich simply for coursework interest (which is important when it comes to completion) but I would probably be better advised to go with Arizona's Northcentral because of the quality issue.

Any feedback or suggestions? I have already checked out Argosy, Capella, Walden, etc. but with the Canadian dollar so low relative to the US dollar, I simply can't afford the tuition!

Thanks in advance for your insights,

Karen B

 

You get what you pay for. You have dismissed good schools in favor of ones that meet no standard of quality, that are often the butt of jokes and which have, to say the least, a very spotted past. What, exactly, are you hoping to accomplish with this degree?

Wes

 

Future Goals

Hi Wes,

I am employed as a faculty member, full-time tenured, in Canada. I teach in the marketing and management areas. And I hold an MBA from a traditional, accredited university (class of 1985).

I am also a business owner/consultant, and a columnist in two weekly newspapers in Halifax, NS and Saint Catharines, Ontario (Canada).

My interest in gaining the Ph.D. is largely career-based, allowing me to seek promotion within the rank system in my own university. I am already at the ceiling of my rank.

I have already written two theses from accredited schools (one undergraduate, one graduate). I have also taught courses at the Master's level in business, and supervised graduate-level theses.

I have already done a lot of the publication relevant in the academic field, held research grants, etc. etc. etc.

In my situation (and with my own kids in college), in my 40's, I don't want to spend as much on my further education as I will on my my kids' education. That is about it in a nutshell.

Will the Ph.D. really change my life or my career? No, not really? I expect I will be doing what I am doing until I die or retire! But I am tired of being at the top of my rank, and I must admit, I am a little bored as well.

So, perhaps the Doc's the ticket?

Karen B

 

Funny, I did my UIU internship with Greenwich during its startup. I don't believe any efforts were underway to seek accreditation, at least not at first. When Bear ran it, it was a relatively small operation, IIRC.

Regardless of the quality of the educative process at Greenwich, the result will be a degree that is not generally recognized as comparable to one from an accredited school.

On the other hand, Northcentral is a candidate for accreditation. Generally speaking, candidates are treated like fully accredited schools when it comes to accepting credits and degrees from them. This isn't universially true, but largely. Almost no DL schools have advanced to candidacy without going on to accredited status. I can only think of two in the last 20 years: Prometheus and International Graduate School. (They went out of business in 1981 and 1987, respectively.) While there are no guarantees, it is a good--not sure--bet that Northcentral will be successful.

 

Optimism Rules!

Rich,

It appears that Northcentral is completing (presenting?) its self-study this month, and that formal meetings re: accreditation begin in October 2002, but when a final ruling will come is not certain. Their website makes it very clear that candidacy does not guarantee accreditation, and that there is no exact timeline as well.

I was encouraged by previous postings about NCU on this forum, and I am pleased to see that I am not the only one who is optimistic.

Very likely, it would be some time before I was involved in the program, and by then it may well be accredited (or rejected)! If it does become accredited I expect tuition will increase before long.

Cheers
Karen B

 

Karen,

If NCU passes the NCA site visit in October, it will take approximately six additional months prior to their formally receiving regional accreditation.

Personally, I would wait until the NCA accredtiation process is completed prior to considering enrolling in any of their programs. It does appear that the odds are heavily in favor of NCU obtaining accreditation. However, completing coursework at a university in candidacy status does not guarantee that these credits will be accepted for transfer at a number of RA schools.

Also those students who are seeking course credits in psychology or counseling from a school with candidacy status should be aware that many licensure boards will not accept them towards licensure.

 

Re: Future Goals

If you are thinking of staying in academia and wish to remain in an accredited institution, then go the accredited route. You will spend your whole life defending an unaccredited degree.

Cheers,

George

 

better options

Business Doc. at a distance.
I understand the problem of having children, a job, community connections, and trying to earn degrees.
Distance learning is often much more convient than traveling to and from a classroom.
I don't think seriously considering a non-RA degree makes sense for someone who plans to work in the RA world. When you publish you list degrees and schools.
I think most RA doctoral programs offer more potential for research, networking contacts, and future benefit than non-RA schools.
I think Touro offers a business degree, completely at a distance.
The NCU option looked reasonable too.
I guess it comes back to what do you expect to gain from the degree.
If you hope to get a professional boost? The best option would be an RA degree.
Will your employer pay for you to take courses toward your doctorate? Most employers seem to want their employees to take courses from regionaly accredited schools. If you work at a college it would be in the colleges better interest to help you get a RA doctorate.
All the best!

 

Is this their first visit? If so, then they have 4 years from that point, including two more visits before they would receive accreditation, and that assumes that everything is in order.

Wes

 

Re: Future Goals

That is a dangerous combination, a faculty member picking up and trying to use a non-accredited degree. I can't imagine that your school would increase your rank or salary based upon that degree and would think that is will become a liability, should you try and use it.

Wes

 

Re: Future Goals

Only if your university will accept the Doc as qualification to move you out of your current rank. Of the two institutions you mention, my gut feeling is, if Northcentral achieves accreditation (and it looks as if it's on track) that there would be less skepticism about it than about Greenwich. But you'd better check first with your administration.

Does it have to be a totally non-resident PhD? Capella offers a Ph.D. in Organizational Management which requires three 1-week residencies (usually taken once each year).

 

I'm also a canadian and working towards a doctorate degree. Australian schools seem to be the only accredited option that is affordable for canadians (Besides South African). I'd would suggest you to apply for a research PhD in Business at charles sturt, "Business ethics" seems to be within the faculty research interests and you will get an accredited PhD for a reasonable price. You won't need to complete any course work and residencies could be negotiated.

University of Southern Queensland can be also an option, 'm a DBA student with USQ, faculty go to visit places where they have high concentration of studens but for the moment Canada is out of the list. The DBA doesn't offer courses in business ethics but the PhD could be done in that topic. The only PhD that I know available 100% at distance is the Charles Sturt one, at USQ the PhD has to be done on campus.


If you want your PhD for teaching I wouldn't advice you to go for North Central. Canadian Universities are not very keen about virtual universities yet, even if accredited. A PhD from North Central wouldn't be seen with good eyes at a faculty at a Canadian University. You better off with a brick and mortar university if your goal is teaching. That leaves you only with Charles Strut (For low price). South African schools could be another option; although they are not very prestigious I would say that you have a better chance from a brick and mortar PhD from a South African school than a one from North Central.


hope this helps,

 

The following was posted on another thread:

[/B] The period of candidacy is four years. In exceptional situations, the Commission at its discretion may extend candidacy to a fifth year.

I.A.1.b at

http://www.ncahigherlearningcommiss...s/edinstia.html [/B]

 

Sorry, the url got cut off...

http://www.ncahigherlearningcommission.org
/resources/policies/edinstia.html#1a

 

RFValve offers some good advice. NCU may be okay because it's name does not raise eyebrows (like Argosy & Capella) although you may find someone who know it is virtual. There are some quite prestigious South African Universities with world class reputations (eg Rhodes & others). Whether or not they will let you do the PhD completely DL is another matter. In both the AU & SA cases it seems to often be a case of who you talk to in the department and whether they are willing to work with you. I would do my research. Tom Head is doing an AU doctorate and has researched South African options. University of South Africa is well known but not as prestigious as Rhodes. They offer DL doctorates and have well known alumni (Desmond TuTu, Nelson Mandela). Do a search for "University of South Africa"(Canada) and the web site for the Canadian representative should come up. Cost is very reasonable and a yahoo search will turn up faculty members in the US with UNISA doctorates (in fact one took over a Canadian theology school and obviously did the degree through distance learning).

As an aside and likely no where near as prestigious as Rhodes or UNISA is UNIZUL (University of Zululand). They offer a research doctorates (there are a couple of people doing them here mostly theology but one from the business/computer dept & theology). The cost of the entire program is less than 2000 US dollars. They are a recognized/equivalent of accredited state (provincial) university. A far better choice than Greenwich.

If you need it for academia I would investigate Australian options and the more prestigious South African schools. Because you are in academia you may find people in the dept.'s willing to work with you.

Good luck eh!

North

 

Karen: - Dr. Bear indicated that when he was involved with Greenwich it was a decent school seeking accreditation, and that many of the original faculty were still involved.

John: Nope. I felt there was zero possibility of Greenwich in 1990-91 -- my time there -- getting recognized accreditation; it was never an option.

If Northcentral gets its accreditation they become a viable option. A risk until then; of course.

During mu 7 years in marketing the Heriot Watt MBA -- 91-98 -- we had great success with Canadian provincial loan programs. If you are looking at a 2 percent a month repayment; the difference betzeen a Capellq or Nova or Walden or Touro and qn unaccredited school isnt all that great -- and the Australian options may be even less than Northcentral now; ,uch less whatever it will be when accredited.

John Bear; apologizing for all typos
resulting from slow learning of the French
keyboard known; presumqbly; as the
AZERTY rather than
QWERTY.

 

Why a 'degree' with no validuty

Since joining this forum I have begun to realise why such a fuss is made about accreditation in the US. You seem to have a major problem with degree mills. In the past I have been testy with people asking on the net if Heriot-Watt is accredited as a British university, of course it is - it is illegal to claim to be a British university without a Royal Charter, though every now and again somebody tries to slip through.

But the problem of Karen appears to be somewhat more complex. She is willing to undertake a doubtful 'PhD' out of a poverty of alternatives. What quality of instruction does she expect from a moveable 'university', now on Norfolk Island in the Pacific (a former British penal colony), whose 'degrees' nobody recognises, and whose 'faculty', in the words of McEnroe, can't be serious. And her preferred course is in Business Ethics!

Why not do a search for books on this topic and either buy them second hand (less than the fee she will be charged) or borrow them from a library?

Prof. Kennedy (Heriot-Watt University, Edinburgh, Scotland)

Also using a new (to me) French computer, er, Ordinateur.

 

Re: Why a 'degree' with no validuty

Oh, the UK seems to have its own problems -- but less awareness.

If it weren't for UK degree mills, "Dr." Gregory Caplinger might not have had such quick success with his scams. Have UK authorities taken any action against Sussex General Hospital and Metropolitan Collegiate Institute? See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/1039562.stm for more.

And...

"'Irish' University is Mobile Phoney"
Harry Browne, Irish Times
http://www.ireland.com/education/el/news4.htm