#1--Re:ACE--do all 3 schools (COSC,TESC,EX.)accept all ACE approved courses? #2--if I were to take upper-level exams from say EX., would one of the other 2, or both, accept them as upper-level? #3--what are the DSST exams like, or is it explained in thier exam study guides? And finally, #4--All 3 schools want my money before they will agree to help with advice in what exams to take. I want to get all my 120 credits completed before choosing a school, and the schools don't seem to want to go over my proposed plan, or rough-draft, as it were. Any suggestions, or would anyone want to go over it with me? Thx in advance...havn't been able to get into the site for a long time, hence the deluge of questions! This site has been my source of reference for D.L., and most ppl. in here are so helpful and generous, I don't know what I would've done up to this point w/o it!
#1 They accept most ACE approved courses/tests. AFAIK, things like the FEMA courses are only accepted at TESC, TESC doesn't accept GRE tests, and they accept CLEP and DSST courses (I think they all accept ECE courses as well). #2 Excelsior and COSC have credit by exam guides available that list how many credits of what type will be granted for the various tests. I have no clue if TESC has one of these as well (I'd assume so). #3 I haven't taken any, sorry. #4 Each school has slightly different requirements from the others, check their handbooks (available on their websites) for the exact general education requirements. You need to choose a major as there are different requirements for different programs. I sat down with Excelsior's requirements, and mapped out a plan that I expect will get me close. CLEP tests and ECE tests are easy location wise for me to take, and these make up the majority of what I am taking. I am avoiding as much duplication as possible within the tests, and am basically doing CLEP for lower level, and ECE for higher level (with the exception of Statistics which isn't offered via CLEP). Things to keep in mind are: General requirements (English requirement 3cred at Excelsior, 6 at TESC and COSC, usually 12 credits of humanities, 12 of science/math, and 12 of social science), how many applied professional courses you are taking (Excelsior's BA allows for 30credits, the BS for 60), as well as depth requirements, and upper level credit requirements. Things to note are that Excelsior will not accept the CLEP English, only the ECE English (I decided to take an LSU course for English as I have never had an actual composition course, so thought it would be worth the extra time/money), but by doing that I would have to take an additional class to get a degree from COSC or TESC. Oh, COSC is picky about the order you take the tests, if you are looking at them don't take advanced course tests before the basic ones... Best advice for any program is to start out with the basic courses, and move into the more advanced ones. There are multiple possiblities for testing out depending upon your desired outcome. I am working on a BA in liberal studies most likely from Excelsior (I am sitting at 63 credits via CLEP testing, and as soon as I finish my English course will probably go ahead and get an Associates to celebrate my progess toward the BA. My program of testing wouldn't work well if you are looking at an actual concentration/major. Sorry to ramble on, I guess in short: There are minor variances between all three schools, and not all require exactly the same things, or accept all of the same tests. They are close to identical, but not quite. CLEP tests and DSST tests are some of the safest tests in terms of being accepted, but there are some tests that are too close and duplicate credits.
Re question # 3... To the excellent advice above regarding questions 1,2, and 4, I have several things to add only about #3. First, be flexible and creative. Adapt your opportunities (e.g., testing opps) to your needs, and adapt your learning efforts to your goals (e.g., meeting math requirements). Second, obey Lawrie Miller’s algorithm: study, then test, then evaluate; then test or repeat. But feel free to apply it creatively: maybe test, then evaluate, then either test or study more. It’s the evaluation step that must be used creatively. It’s all very well to be told "if you’re scoring 55-60% on sample tests, you’ll pass every time;" but how do you know if you need to study? And by how much? When in doubt, re-test (sample exam, or e.g., take the cliffs notes quizzes available online)! or take the multiple choice portion of the relevant AP prep or sample tests. For example, I just took a few TECEP sample exams. I scored 70% on the Intro to Politics exam (60% passing)--done cold, without any prep. So I’m good to go... Similarly, I took the Business and Society exam and passed, or the DANTES Intro to Business. But the TECEP Public Administration, I did not. It would require some concerted study to pass that one. If I need the credit, I need to formulate a study plan. A good indicator with the sample exams is to do the first three to five; if one finds them generally easy (check answers before proceeding to be sure), that’s a decent indicator that one will pass it—therefore continue with the sample items to be sure. If one still passes, then one need not study--and if not, not. Then prepare a study plan. Another example: I can barely pass the TECEP sample exam for Art History I. But what are my strengths and weaknesses? Based on the outline, I prepared a chart or matrix that matched stylistic periods (Renaissance, Baroque, etc.), against artistic media (painting, sculpture, architecture). I learned there’s little point in reviewing 19th century Art, but my weakest area was modern architecture—so, to study efficiently and guarantee a "Pass," that’s where I ought to review first. On DANTES versus CLEP? CLEPs give you longer samples than DANTES. But DANTES sample exam's items also TELL YOU what you must know! Most answer items are possible test items, too! Thus, you can use them as reverse study guides. For instance, DANTES Here’s To Your Health gives you lots of terms and conditions to look up if you don’t pass the sample, or pass only marginally. This gives you convenient subject matter to bone up on. The biggest difference is that DANTES exams will frequently use multi-part questions to increase the degree of difficulty. An example: “American democracy is best characterized by _______? I. Frequent elections II. Transparency III. Separation of powers A) I B) I and II C) I, II, and III D) None of the above Correct Answer: B (If you answered C, you’re thinking of American constitutionalism, not the practice of democracy.) Both, but especially CLEPs, provide sample exam items that represent the median level of difficulty. This means you’ll find equal numbers of exam questions that are amazingly easy and very hard, but definitely fewer of both than sample-like questions. Get used to not being able to master the entire exam—there’s no reward for perfection on these! So don’t bother over studying. If jumping in is an issue, if self-doubt about your test-taking ability stops you, then begin with the CLEP General battery using Princeton Review’s "Cracking the CLEP," since they are pass/Fail only, and cheap. If nothing else, it’s confidence building! But used well, the "Cracking.." book is also a manual in skill-building those “test smarts.” Finally, remember there are other credit earning options: Ohio University’s Course Credit by Exam—and The University of North Carolina’s Independent Study program offers the same. Excelsior College also informs me that they would accept (with permission) Athabasca University’s (Alberta, Canada), Challenge for Credit exams. Good hunting! --Orson
Re: Re question # 3... That is not the algorithm. Important to do the mock tests first. The algorithm is: WHILE (NOTPASS) DO SIT MOCK TEST REVISE SIT MOCK TEST SIT EXAMINATION See http://geocities.com/BA_in_4_Weeks/books.html I recommend that learners first do the official and other selected mock (practice) exams, and score their performance in those exams. This initial evaluation will benchmark their current level of competence, indicating what they know, what they don't know, and where they might best concentrate their study efforts (if indeed, scores indicate further study is required). - If scores indicate no study is required, sit the actual exam. Only after that initial assessment should learners hit the books, concentrating initially, on those areas where mock testing has revealed the greatest deficit and where they are likely to accrue the greatest number of new marks After this study and revision, learners should then retest and rescore, using the mock exams. When they have reached a sufficient level of competence, indicated by a passing score + 10% or so, at the level they require (bare pass, or a letter grade - A, B, C), then they should sit the actual exam. Note here that a raw score of 50% is not the same as a standard score of 50. Note also that the purpose of the, mock test - revise - mock test strategy is to generate a useful objective assessment of the learner's current level of competence and to provide direction for efficient focused study and revision (if required). It is important to know the test subject well enough that distractions (such as the angst of testing) do not impede demonstration of competence. Being good at tests can assist a marginal test candidate. The purpose of doing the mocks is to ensure you never test as a marginal candidate, that you only test when you know what the outcome will be, and that that outcome will be the one you want it to be. Well, as noted above, Orson, you do the mock testing and evaluation first, that is how you know if you need to study. The mantra of mock test first - evaluate, then decide to either sit the real exam or revise, has been a point I have labored in this forum, in AED, and in BA in 4 Weeks for the past four of five years (in the case of AED). Some pointers from BA in 4 Weeks "TESTING OUT" (for full text see http://geocities.com/ba_in_4_weeks/Examtips.html ) "Use practice tests in the first instance to assess your current knowledge level. Once you have some objective reading of your current ability, you will be able to tailor study to fit the gaps. Links to practice test publications are provided within the outlines presented below, and on the main menu page of this web site. . ." "RULES OF THUMB 1. As a general rule, to be sure of passing a CLEP exam, ensure you're hitting 50% raw score, and you WILL pass each and every one. 2. As a general rule, to be sure of scoring an "A" (Excelsior and COSC students only), ensure you're hitting 77% raw score, and you WILL score an "A" every time. . ." "STARTING POINT - OBJECTIVE ASSESSMENT CLEP Princeton Review's Cracking the Clep is useful for the CLEP General exams. It is comprehensive and can be a very accurate predictor of performance in the actual exams (see the critique). The Official Study Guide from the College Board covers all the exams (from the horse's mouth), but suffers from the relatively meager question sample size. Nevertheless, it is essential you read this book and practice these example questions too. . . ." "SCORING One thing people often fear when practicing for these exams, is their apparent poor performance. This is a standardized test. It would be very difficult to determine a range of performance if contents were skewed to produce an average "pass mark" of 90% (common in the U.S.). Instead we have to have enough questions and grades of quality of questions, that will accurately assess and reflect a range of abilities of the total population of examinees. Bottom line, look for 40% to 45% raw score for a standardized score of 50 (out of 80) in the subject and general CLEP exams. . . " Lawrie Miller BA in 4 Weeks http://geocities.com/BA_in_4_Weeks .
No. I take it, "EX" = Excelsior. Yes, in most cases, but it does not work the other way round. That is, both COSC an TESC tend to be more liberal in awarding upper level credit for proficiency exams than Excelsior. So, while exams considered upper level by excelsior would normally be considered upper level by COSC and TESC, there are a number of examples where exams considered upper level by COSC and TESC, would not be considered upper level by Excelsior. Inspection and comparison of the relevant "guides to exam credit", might prove useful here. Relevant links are provided in the main menu of [i}BA in 4 Weeks[/i]. Best thing would be to try the practice exams. Some guidance and comparisons of CLEP, DANTES, and ECE exams is provided under "CONTRASTING EXAMS" at http://www.geocities.com/ba_in_4_weeks/Examtips.html Additional information on individual DANTES exams is provided in the BA in 4 Weeks degree manuals. See also the exam difficulty index that compares the relative difficulty of nearly 40 individual CLEP, DANTES, ECE and GRE subject exams http://www.geocities.com/ba_in_4_weeks/Examtips.html I found COSC quite accommodating in that respect, willing to offer fairly detailed and specific counsel before enrollment. Lawrie Miller
ACE... Just got a response from TESC, (quote-)"we will accept ACE recommended courses". Of course she didn't include the fact I mentioned they were going to come from a DETC school. I'm thinking I should cancel the course altogether.....??
Authoritative, sound, and complete... Perhaps because I don't belong to Lawrie Miller's top tier who can "test out" for a baccalaureate in 4 weeks--I'm doing it on the one-year plus plan, instead--I've adapted Lawrie's algorithmic process to a different variation. Nonetheless, he reminds me of HOW much I've already forgotten--for instance, the fact that Excelsior cheats CLEPers of UD credit, while COSC and TESC do not! And yet everything Lawrie says is authoritative, sound, and complete.... I won't be needing your book when it finally comes out, but that doesn't mean I won't be buying myself a copy to share with friends! --Orson
good to know-Thx! Great advice from everyone, And esp. good to know about Excelsior not too generous with accepting certain upper level exams. Note about my response from TESC and ACE courses--I just signed up for this DETC course and can cancel it if I get too nervous COSC or TESC won't accept it, as in Lawries "book"-they tend to change rules often and without warning at times. The DETC course is just one I really want to take (actually a bunch of courses I would love to take-AmericanAcadamy of Nutrition) but most of my degree will be testing, OHIO U. courses and past credits. I can always obtain AAN's certificate, whenever, as an addition to my resume I suppose. Thank you all
Re: Authoritative, sound, and complete... The title BA in 4 Weeks is a vehicle used to convey possibilities and practicalities. If average readers are convinced some can do it in 4 weeks, they then start to believe they themselves may be able to do it, perhaps not in that time frame, but in six months or within a year. There is no imperative that the process be wrapped up in a month, nor is there need to alter the templates (if you choose to use them) solely on the basis of an extended timeline. The process may be completed in as little as 4 Weeks but does not have to be completed in that time frame. Clearly, learners can pace themselves as best suits their unique abilities and circumstances. There is no requirement that the process be completed in under a month, any more than there is a requirement that a "four year college degree" be completed in 4 years. BA in 4 Weeks was written with only one "tier" in mind, and that is the general cohort of motivated adult learners. This is explained in some detail in the introduction to the guides:- "It's estimated that 15% to 20% of motivated adults could complete the process in under a month if inclined to do so. I think it entirely likely that fully 60% of motivated adults taking on this project, could complete degree requirements within six months. I am as sure as I can be that close to 90% of motivated adults could complete degree requirements within a year. " . . . "There is nothing in the actions proposed in this series that I and others as average adult learners have not already proved doable, and that you, at least our equal, cannot do too. This series is not borne of theory and wishful thinking but of practical experience and demonstrable accomplishment. It is not a prospectus for the gifted elite, but a usable guide for ordinary men and women who dare to do something extraordinary." . . . The methods and processes delineated in the degree manuals require no modification simply because a reader may chose to complete the process in 12 months rather than one. All they need do is complete the same process at a slower pace. However, eclectic use of all available learning and credit gathering methodologies is recommended :- "It is likely that most people will earn their degree using credit earned in a variety of ways. The game here is not necessarily to earn all credit via examination, or by way of portfolio assessment, or even to do it all in a month. The trick is to make efficient use of your existing credit and native talent to achieve your goal. BA in 4 weeks seeks to provide a template that you can apply in whole or in part to your particular set of circumstances where and when you think it appropriate. " Well thank you, and good luck with the remainder of your studies. Lawrie Miller http://www.geocities.com/ba_in_4_weeks/ .
