+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 87
  1. #1
    Gabe F. is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    207

    "Time to Shut Down All For-profit Institutions"

    https://www.insidehighered.com/digit...t-institutions

    Author
    Robert Ubell
    Vice Dean Emeritus of Online Learning at NYU’s Tandon School of Engineering .

    This article goes for the jugular in the opening paragraph:

    In the wild, predators often prey on the weak, attacking the young, sick and injured. In online education, for-profit universities also go after the most vulnerable, often leaving hapless students with insupportable debt and few marketable skills. Predators in the wild hunt and kill out of biological necessity; cruelly, for-profits go in for the kill to make a buck.

  2. #2
    Bruce is offline Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    9,479
    Says the guy whose school charges over $70,000 per year for undergraduate tuition and fees.
    --
    Bruce Tait
    A.S. (Criminal Justice) Quincy College
    B.A. (Criminal Justice) Curry College
    M.A. (Criminal Justice) University of Massachusetts-Lowell
    M.A. (Forensic & Counseling Psychology) Massachusetts School of Professional Psychology
    Certificate (Investigative Psychology) CUNY-John Jay College of Criminal Justice

    MOOC's
    Certificate (Disability Awareness and Support in Higher Education) University of Pittsburgh
    Certificate (International Criminal Law) Case Western Reserve University
    Certificate (Psychology of Criminal Justice) University of Queensland
    Certificate (Classical Sociological Theory) University of Amsterdam



    RA Criminal Justice Degrees by Distance Learning - Updated 3/16/08

    NA Criminal Justice Degrees by Distance Learning - Updated 3/20/08

  3. #3
    Phdtobe is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    834
    In the wild, predators often prey on the weak, attacking the young, sick and injured. In TV evangelists go after the most vulnerable, often leaving hapless students with insupportable debt and few marketable skills. Predators in the wild hunt and kill out of biological necessity; cruelly, for-profits go in for the kill to make a buck.
    TV preacher i.e joel osteen.

  4. #4
    Johann is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,331
    I loathe and despise TV preachers - they don't merit an emotion as fine and noble as true hatred. But still, it's not the same.

    A TV preacher is just a parasite - not a fierce animal. You send him a bit of money - maybe $20, Maybe $50 -- even more, if you have it. You don't borrow money to send to a preacher. If you do, you're stupid - and there's no cure for that! The preacher sends you nothing -- or maybe one of his worthless books or CDs. That's it. Learn and move on.

    An unscrupulous school ropes in its prey and charges $20 - $30 - $40 thousand or more. The willing victim borrows the cost -and if he/she sticks it out, gets a degree of dubious value and probably no job. The victim hasn't had a little blood sucked out, as a tick might do -or a preacher. He/she has been totally destroyed.

    There are degrees of evil. And not all for-profits are evil; leave the good ones. Preachers? Well, I don't know...

    J.
    Last edited by Johann; 09-01-2017 at 03:07 PM.

  5. #5
    decimon is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    4,218
    Heaven forbid that people have choices. If there is fraud involved with any school then prosecute the fraud.

  6. #6
    Anthony Pina is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    2,963
    Simple solution: Have ALL programs at ALL colleges and universities (regardless of tax status) follow the "gainful employment" rules and see which ones shut down.
    Anthony Piña, Ed.D.
    Associate Provost

  7. #7
    Phdtobe is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    834
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony Pina View Post
    Simple solution: Have ALL programs at ALL colleges and universities (regardless of tax status) follow the "gainful employment" rules and see which ones shut down.
    I think the solution is even simpler. For-profits should not be eligible for government back student loans. They should be another loan poll with for-profits backing. Therefore, there is matching of the revenues earned by for profits with the potential loss on the students loans that drive the revenue.
    The current system is that the revenues are earned by for-profits, the loans are borne by the students, and the losses are covered by taxpayers - sweet!

  8. Advertisement

  9. #8
    bceagles is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    340
    I want to agree with the idea that the for profit model needs to go away, but I have to believe that they are not all "bad".

    On one hand we have:
    DeVry / Keller seems to have a decent reputation within some of their programs. Not to say they don't have their problems, but it appears that you leave some of their programs with marketable skills.

    On another hand we have:
    UoP which appears to have a questionable reputation that they are unable to improve upon.


    In the past, I've heard the case made about the for profits as providing access to programs to student who don't have access to public institutions. For profits were supposedly filingl a gap / need.

    Are there other for profit success stories?

    Do for profits provide access to student who can't get into more traditional programs?
    University of Massachusetts - Lowell, Master of Science in Finance (current)
    Lewis University, MBA - Finance
    Excelsior College, B.S. L.A., Admin/Mgmt Studies

  10. #9
    Gabe F. is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    207
    Quote Originally Posted by bceagles View Post
    On one hand we have:
    DeVry / Keller seems to have a decent reputation within some of their programs. Not to say they don't have their problems, but it appears that you leave some of their programs with marketable skills.
    While I agree with the sentiment that not all for-profits are bad, DeVry is not the best example. Less than a year ago, they paid out more than $100 in settlements over misleading ads (and that's not the only trouble they've had):

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ment/97284248/

  11. #10
    Gabe F. is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    207
    Quote Originally Posted by decimon View Post
    Heaven forbid that people have choices. If there is fraud involved with any school then prosecute the fraud.
    I agree with the sentiment, but it never seems to go that way in practice. IF so, the University of Phoenix and a few others should not exist. The fact that Phoenix still exists is a testament to the systematic failure of both government and the Higher Learning Commission. On that note, I've always been amazed at how the largest for-profit providers all fall under HLC's purview: Phoenix, DeVry , CareerEd, Northcentral, Ashford , etc. Needless to say, I don't think that's a coincidence.

  12. #11
    Gabe F. is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    207
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    Says the guy whose school charges over $70,000 per year for undergraduate tuition and fees.
    NYIT's Bursar's website says the tuition and fees are $34,600 broken down by $17,300 for Fall 2017 and $17,300 for Spring 2018. It's not $34,600 per semester (although their tuition is higher than the average based on their College Scorecard data).

    Taking it a step further, NYIT graduates have pretty good outcomes including annual salaries that are much higher than average: $50.3k vs $33,500. In addition, NYIT students graduate with less debt than University of Phoenix grads (although this is somewhat debatable I know since Phoenix has mostly transfer students many of which have attended several other schools) and certainly a far better reputation.

  13. #12
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Northern Virginia & Dominica, West Indies
    Posts
    10,858
    Quote Originally Posted by Phdtobe View Post
    I think the solution is even simpler. For-profits should not be eligible for government back student loans.
    The solution is even simpler than that: there shouldn't be government-backed student loans at all. They create an artificial ocean of money that tuition rates rise to soak up, and not just at for-profits.
    BS, Info Sys concentration, Charter Oak State College
    MA in Educational Tech, George Washington University
    PhD in Leadership, U. of the Cumberlands (in progress)
    More at http://stevefoerster.com

  14. #13
    Phdtobe is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    834
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFoerster View Post
    The solution is even simpler than that: there shouldn't be government-backed student loans at all. They create an artificial ocean of money that tuition rates rise to soak up, and not just at for-profits.
    I am in agreement, education should be free at public universities. However if there are gov loans for public universities then for-profit should not have access to it. Afterall the whole reason for-profits is that they can deliver quality education much better than government universities so they should have confidence in financing their product in the market.

  15. #14
    Bruce is offline Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    9,479
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe F. View Post
    NYIT's Bursar's website says the tuition and fees are $34,600 broken down by $17,300 for Fall 2017 and $17,300 for Spring 2018. It's not $34,600 per semester (although their tuition is higher than the average based on their College Scorecard data).

    Taking it a step further, NYIT graduates have pretty good outcomes including annual salaries that are much higher than average: $50.3k vs $33,500. In addition, NYIT students graduate with less debt than University of Phoenix grads (although this is somewhat debatable I know since Phoenix has mostly transfer students many of which have attended several other schools) and certainly a far better reputation.
    That's interesting, but the author was affiliated with New York University, not NYIT.

    NYU's undergrad tuition is over $70K per year.

    New York University Tuition, Costs and Financial Aid - CollegeData College Profile
    --
    Bruce Tait
    A.S. (Criminal Justice) Quincy College
    B.A. (Criminal Justice) Curry College
    M.A. (Criminal Justice) University of Massachusetts-Lowell
    M.A. (Forensic & Counseling Psychology) Massachusetts School of Professional Psychology
    Certificate (Investigative Psychology) CUNY-John Jay College of Criminal Justice

    MOOC's
    Certificate (Disability Awareness and Support in Higher Education) University of Pittsburgh
    Certificate (International Criminal Law) Case Western Reserve University
    Certificate (Psychology of Criminal Justice) University of Queensland
    Certificate (Classical Sociological Theory) University of Amsterdam



    RA Criminal Justice Degrees by Distance Learning - Updated 3/16/08

    NA Criminal Justice Degrees by Distance Learning - Updated 3/20/08

  16. Advertisement

  17. #15
    Gabe F. is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    207
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    That's interesting, but the author was affiliated with New York University, not NYIT.

    NYU's undergrad tuition is over $70K per year.

    New York University Tuition, Costs and Financial Aid - CollegeData College Profile
    Oh lawd! I biffed that one big time.

  18. #16
    me again is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,669

    Question Who pays for "free" [sic] tuition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phdtobe View Post
    ...education should be free at public universities...
    Phdtobe, when you say "free" [sic] tuition should be provided to everyone, do you really mean that taxpayers should pay for it?

    California previously provided "free" [sic] tuition at all community colleges, until it became too expensive of a burden on taxpayers, so California began charging tuition.

    What else should the government provide for "free" [sic]? Should government also provide a "free income subsistence subsidy" for everyone?

    SOCIALISTIC CIRCULAR LOGIC:
    1. In communism, taxpayers are the end-all-be-all for "free" [sic] government handouts-for-all.
    2. In communism, the government claims to be the provider when, in actuality, true wealth comes from the entrepreneurial ingenuity of capitalists and laborers (taxpayers) who then surrender their wealth to the socialist-government for redistribution of "free" [sic] governmental handouts.
    3. Government cannot crate wealth.
    4. Government can only provide fertile circumstances for entrepreneurs to harvest capitalistic opportunities.
    5. Government always takes, while capitalistic entrepreneurs always give:
    (a) Government = Takes from taxpayers (good to a limited degree).
    (b) Capitalistic entrepreneurs = Takes from economic opportunities and then gives to receive.

    Again, when you say "free" [sic] tuition should be provided to everyone, do you really mean that taxpayers should pay for it, courtesy of the government?
    MA, Franciscan University of Steubenville, Theology: in-progress online
    Info: http://www.franciscan.edu/academics/graduate-programs/
    Favorite scriptures: Rev. 11:15 & Luke 24:45

    LET'S DO THIS! https://www.facebook.com/TrumpForPresident2020/

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. New book on for-profit universities: "Lower Ed"
    By John Bear in forum General Distance Learning Discussions
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 05-09-2017, 09:46 AM
  2. Institutions of higher education are "culturally" secretive
    By decimon in forum Off-Topic Discussions
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-17-2011, 04:48 PM
  3. Association for Biblical Higher Education's Updated List of "Affiliate" Institutions
    By in forum Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approval, and unaccredited schools)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-24-2005, 03:59 PM
  4. Transcipts for the "for-profit" colleges
    By Fred M. in forum Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approval, and unaccredited schools)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 08-03-2004, 03:21 PM
  5. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-28-2003, 04:49 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts




1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197