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  1. #1
    engadnan is offline Registered User
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    Taras Shevchenko National Open University, Kyiv, Ukraine

    I am not sure if this Ukrainian University has been discussed here before. I just came across Taras Shevchenko National Open University and details of their DL Programs can be accessed at: https://www.knuou.com/

    Anyone having some experience or info about them? Are these people legit?

  2. #2
    Kizmet is online now Moderator
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    I'm waiting on Stanislav on this one.
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  3. #3
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    It seems to be a division of a legitimate and good university: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taras_...ersity_of_Kyiv

    A link to the open university is about halfway down the page.

    Taras Bulba University I would avoid.

  4. #4
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
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    Speaking of Taras Shevchenko, and of controversial public statuary:

    Taras Shevchenko – DC Memorialist
    BS, Info Sys concentration, Charter Oak State College
    MA in Educational Tech, George Washington University
    PhD in Leadership, U. of the Cumberlands (in progress)
    More at http://stevefoerster.com

  5. #5
    Stanislav is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFoerster View Post
    Speaking of Taras Shevchenko, and of controversial public statuary:

    Taras Shevchenko – DC Memorialist
    Yeah, sure, the situation with a statue of a former serf is exactly like controversies around Confederate statues. Also, complaining that a poet is a "Communist Party idol" when organizations funding the statue are rabidly anti-Communist was not weird at all.

    Taras Shevchenko is, of course, Ukraine's national poet. Commies tried to appropriate his image, but he was always much bigger deal among Ukrainian dissidents and even nationalist guerilla movement (the latter group dominated organized life of the "third wave" Ukrainian diaspora, the guys who sponsored the statue).
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Stanislav
    BS, MS (Applied Maths, Nat'l Technical U. of Ukraine)
    PhD (Computer Science, Florida State University)
    Certificate in Community College Teaching, CSU-DH
    Online faculty workshops (Meritus University, Humber College, Yorkville University)
    LLB(Hons) Open Learning, Northumbria U. - pursuing

  6. #6
    Stanislav is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by decimon View Post
    It seems to be a division of a legitimate and good university: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taras_...ersity_of_Kyiv

    A link to the open university is about halfway down the page.

    Taras Bulba University I would avoid.
    Taras Shevchenko National University is the top school in the country. No problem there.

    However:
    KNU Open University is ONLY for non-Ukrainian as well for students who are not living in Ukraine. Any student living or has Ukrainian nationality or planning to live or lived in Ukraine or planning apply for Ukrainian nationality or any similar cases is not allowed to apply for the KNU OU programs. Please apply through the KNU on campus program only. KNU OU is exclusively for International Students living outside Ukraine.
    ...
    All our KNU OU online degrees/diplomas/certificates are not licensure programmes and do not prepare an individual to become a licensed professional in any field without additional education.
    This is from their website, and is from a press release that is found on the main University web site as well. The latter phrase is mistranslated: the degrees are "not licensed programs", and the part about "licensed professional" are not in Ukrainian text. Furthermore, TSNOU is not found in the list of TSNU departments and institutes. Thus, it seems like this is an outfit ran by someone named Prof. Dr. Habib Al Souleiman From Switzerland, who signed some form of a deal with Ukrainian school; programs do not fall under the main University's licenses and accreditations, and are not taught by its faculty. I am not entirely clear about the standing of these awards. Main campus degrees are, of course, fully legit and enjoy a level of prestige at home.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Stanislav
    BS, MS (Applied Maths, Nat'l Technical U. of Ukraine)
    PhD (Computer Science, Florida State University)
    Certificate in Community College Teaching, CSU-DH
    Online faculty workshops (Meritus University, Humber College, Yorkville University)
    LLB(Hons) Open Learning, Northumbria U. - pursuing

  7. #7
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislav View Post
    Yeah, sure, the situation with a statue of a former serf is exactly like controversies around Confederate statues. Also, complaining that a poet is a "Communist Party idol" when organizations funding the statue are rabidly anti-Communist was not weird at all.

    And they misspelled anti-Semitic.

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  9. #8
    mintaru is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislav View Post
    Furthermore, TSNOU is not found in the list of TSNU departments and institutes. Thus, it seems like this is an outfit ran by someone named Prof. Dr. Habib Al Souleiman From Switzerland, who signed some form of a deal with Ukrainian school; programs do not fall under the main University's licenses and accreditations, and are not taught by its faculty. I am not entirely clear about the standing of these awards. Main campus degrees are, of course, fully legit and enjoy a level of prestige at home.
    Prof. Dr. Habib Al Souleiman is also PR Director of ABMS Open University of Switzerland (see: Habib Al Souleiman | INQAAHE), and ABMS offers joint degrees together with TSNOU and University of Dąbrowa Górnicza in Poland: https://www.abmswiss.com/Diplomas/Du...ma-Possibility

    However, I don't know anything about the standing of these joint degrees.

  10. #9
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislav View Post
    However:


    This is from their website, and is from a press release that is found on the main University web site as well. The latter phrase is mistranslated: the degrees are "not licensed programs", and the part about "licensed professional" are not in Ukrainian text. Furthermore, TSNOU is not found in the list of TSNU departments and institutes. Thus, it seems like this is an outfit ran by someone named Prof. Dr. Habib Al Souleiman From Switzerland, who signed some form of a deal with Ukrainian school; programs do not fall under the main University's licenses and accreditations, and are not taught by its faculty. I am not entirely clear about the standing of these awards. Main campus degrees are, of course, fully legit and enjoy a level of prestige at home.

    Thanks.

    I think the university errs in letting him use their name as his own.

  11. #10
    engadnan is offline Registered User
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    Some details from the University website, 'Open University of Taras Shevchenko National University of Kyiv established as Online University according to Decision Number KNOU3417 ... Prof. Dr. Habib Al Souleiman From Switzerland, Doctorate in Business Administration , MBA , BA(Hons.) ... He is the Dean and Professor of KNU Open University' ... [http://univ.kiev.ua/en/news/8688]

  12. #11
    Stanislav is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by decimon View Post
    Thanks.

    I think the university errs in letting him use their name as his own.
    Well, we don't know if the deal in fact includes some form of quality assurance of the offerings. But all in all, you're right - it looks like a mistake on part of Shevchenko U. administration.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Stanislav
    BS, MS (Applied Maths, Nat'l Technical U. of Ukraine)
    PhD (Computer Science, Florida State University)
    Certificate in Community College Teaching, CSU-DH
    Online faculty workshops (Meritus University, Humber College, Yorkville University)
    LLB(Hons) Open Learning, Northumbria U. - pursuing

  13. #12
    Johann is offline Registered User
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    Well, we've seen ABMS before - here. ABMS (The Open University of Switzerland)

    The first time I read about ABMS, a real expert found (among other things) it was operating from a small rented office in the Treuhand Business Centre. A picture of the Treuhand Building was a major feature of the web-page. I'm pretty sure ABMS has moved. I found a blog that is extremely critical of ABMS and its founder (Dr. al Souleiman). It claims, among other things, that his PhD is self-awarded, from a "school" at a domain registered to ABMS. ABMS university Switzerland WARNING

    What I know for sure about ABMS is that it's a cantonally-approved school - i.e. no equivalent to institutional accreditation and its degrees do not have mainstream standing. The standing of Cantonally-approved schools varies a lot. A reliable German poster, in the thread I cited above, says that ABMS is regarded as a degree mill in his country, while some other cantonal schools were considered as "real" schools offering "real" education . He went on to say that the degrees from all such schools are useless in Germany, as they don't have full, mainstream degree-granting authority in theirs own country.

    As for ASIC accreditation, ASIC itself says: "However, it should be noted that ASIC neither confers nor validates degree-awarding powers. Applicants for distance education programmes should always satisfy themselves that the level of recognition of a relevant award is sufficient to meet their needs."

    So, the Ukrainian school appears to be under the same ownership as the Swiss ABMS, which is problematic enough without the scathing blog. And it seems not to have the degree-granting authority of Taras Shevchenko U. itself. Probably "legal " - but who needs a "legal " degree with less-than-mainstream standing? I've seen enough red flags here... I'm out.

    J.
    Last edited by Johann; 08-29-2017 at 01:19 PM.

  14. #13
    Kizmet is online now Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    Probably "legal" - but who needs a "legal" degree with less-than-mainstream standing? I've seen enough red flags here... I'm out.
    Two main things come into my mind as I scan this thread. First, there is just a kind of standard accreditation sleuthing going on. These days it's always international and there's a certain amount of murkiness resulting from a lack of clear or current knowledge about higher ed accreditation in a particular country, tracking down owners, looking at history , etc. It can be a fun kind of problem and we're lucky to have a group of people here who enjoy it and are good at it. So it is, in the abstract, just an interesting little mystery to solve. The second thing though is the more practical question of "Is it a school that anyone might actually want to enroll in?" Is it a time bomb or a diamond in the rough? This is where the Levicoff Rule comes into play and where those red flags seem really quite important. If this group of accreditation detectives spend a few collective hours sifting through the info and fail to come up with a convincing conclusion then this fact, all by itself is pretty damning. At that point I'd want to know, why would you look any further? There are so many DL schools these days, why would you take any risk at all when it comes to earning a credential that will become associated with your name and reputation? Now if a person wants to persist in the investigation simply to satisfy their desire to conclusively solve the mystery (a la point #1) then I can understand it but I can't understand why someone might continue to think, "Wow, this might be a great educational opportunity."
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  15. #14
    Johann is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet
    I can't understand why someone might continue to think, "Wow, this might be a great educational opportunity."
    Just the contrary nature of some human beings - the refusal to give up hope that they're actually going to find the Holy Grail, the Great White Whale, Capt. Kidd's treasure, etc.

    J.

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  17. #15
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    Two main things come into my mind as I scan this thread. First, there is just a kind of standard accreditation sleuthing going on. These days it's always international and there's a certain amount of murkiness resulting from a lack of clear or current knowledge about higher ed accreditation in a particular country, tracking down owners, looking at history , etc. It can be a fun kind of problem and we're lucky to have a group of people here who enjoy it and are good at it. So it is, in the abstract, just an interesting little mystery to solve. The second thing though is the more practical question of "Is it a school that anyone might actually want to enroll in?" Is it a time bomb or a diamond in the rough? This is where the Levicoff Rule comes into play and where those red flags seem really quite important. If this group of accreditation detectives spend a few collective hours sifting through the info and fail to come up with a convincing conclusion then this fact, all by itself is pretty damning. At that point I'd want to know, why would you look any further? There are so many DL schools these days, why would you take any risk at all when it comes to earning a credential that will become associated with your name and reputation? Now if a person wants to persist in the investigation simply to satisfy their desire to conclusively solve the mystery (a la point #1) then I can understand it but I can't understand why someone might continue to think, "Wow, this might be a great educational opportunity."

    In this case it took Stanislav to clear up some things.

  18. #16
    Phdtobe is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by decimon View Post
    Thanks.

    I think the university errs in letting him use their name as his own.
    I see the problem but I don't think it is big deal. All degrees are conferred by Taras Shevchenko National University which is solid university.
    Deans are replaceable. It looks like the university will be around long after the current deAn is gone. It looks more like an hr issue than an academic issue .

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