+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 47
  1. #1
    Bruce is offline Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    9,479

    The Ever-Tightening Job Market for Ph.D.s

    --
    Bruce Tait
    A.S. (Criminal Justice) Quincy College
    B.A. (Criminal Justice) Curry College
    M.A. (Criminal Justice) University of Massachusetts-Lowell
    M.A. (Forensic & Counseling Psychology) Massachusetts School of Professional Psychology
    Certificate (Investigative Psychology) CUNY-John Jay College of Criminal Justice

    MOOC's
    Certificate (Disability Awareness and Support in Higher Education) University of Pittsburgh
    Certificate (International Criminal Law) Case Western Reserve University
    Certificate (Psychology of Criminal Justice) University of Queensland
    Certificate (Classical Sociological Theory) University of Amsterdam



    RA Criminal Justice Degrees by Distance Learning - Updated 3/16/08

    NA Criminal Justice Degrees by Distance Learning - Updated 3/20/08

  2. #2
    Darkwaters is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    35
    We've all heard the stories of students with intense amounts of debt. I think the current average students gets out of undergrad with $30k in debt. But there are always those outspoken ones with insane numbers like $100,000 or even $200,000 for a bachelors (and its always from a big school, but in a field that offers no potential for high incomes).

    Our culture has an infatuation with getting into the "best schools" and praising the Lord that we got in. So maybe it's excessively expensive. Does it matter?! It's a great school! You'd be crazy not to go there since you got in! Based on that brand name you'll be making way more after graduation anyways. And besides, long term debt is a problem for tomorrow! Getting in is an accomplishment in and of itself! Why would you not want to be accomplished?!

    We have a lot of students that fail to make the basic ROI calculation regarding cost of program vs. potential earnings vs. chances of landing a job that really is just common sense when you think about it. It doesn't surprise me that so many Doctoral students continue to struggle with the same life skills that undergrad's do. Many of them haven't had the formative life experiences that teach them these things since they've been in the artificial bubble of academia for so long.
    Master of Healthcare Administration (MHA) - University of Nevada, Las Vegas (Ongoing, Spring 2018)
    Master of Business Administration (MBA) - University of the Incarnate Word
    Bachelor of Business Administration (BBA) - Oklahoma Christian University

    Project Management Professional (PMP)

  3. #3
    decimon is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    4,221
    The social non-sciences (sorry, Bruce) have been pervasive for a century and to no positive result. What good the PhDs?

    STEM PhDs? As many as are needed is as many as are hired.

  4. #4
    me again is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,679
    Masters degrees are seeing the largest percentile increase. For example, here is a very old chart, but it still shows continuing trends:
    http://www.randalolson.com/wp-conten...-over-time.png

    Full story:
    College degrees awarded per capita in the U.S.A. | Dr. Randal S. Olson
    MA, Franciscan University of Steubenville, Theology: in-progress online
    Info: http://www.franciscan.edu/academics/graduate-programs/
    Favorite scriptures: Rev. 11:15 & Luke 24:45

    LET'S DO THIS! https://www.facebook.com/TrumpForPresident2020/

  5. #5
    JBjunior is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    540
    The problem will continue as long as the government is supplying the funds with no restrictions on the result. We have incentivized peoples uninformed/uneducated dreams, not societal economic realities. You want a useless undergrad? By all means we will pay for it. Have excessive debt and no job? Grad school will allow you to defer it. Still can't find a job? Maybe a PhD will finally make you marketable. Oh, now you have the rest of your life to be buried in debt and make $40K a year to pay it back... perfect. At least you are educated and it makes you a better citizen.

    Anecdotal at best, when I took the LSAT a few years ago I had time before the test to talk with a handful of those there to take it. Expecting to find others like me that had a desire to actually get a JD as a genuine goal to enter the field, instead I found 24-28 year old retail workers that realized their undergrad didn't get them what they wanted, were now working a dead end job, and figured going to law school (deferring their student loans and obtaining many more) was their best course of action. My meaning is that it became a goal out of necessity or being pushed into a corner, not something they ever intended on having to do. If someone else was willing to throw money at them to go, why not?
    Last edited by JBjunior; 07-30-2017 at 06:53 AM.
    MS in Leadership -- Duquesne University (2017)
    BA Liberal Studies -- TESU (2010)

  6. #6
    FTFaculty is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    615
    The market for some PhDs is hot. Certain disciplines within business such as finance and accounting pay upwards of $200K a year to start for larger universities for a 10 month a year contract. Disciplines such as sociology , history , poly sci, etc. Forget it, the market's not good and not likely to be good for the foreseeable future.

  7. #7
    Bruce is offline Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    9,479
    Quote Originally Posted by decimon View Post
    The social non-sciences (sorry, Bruce) have been pervasive for a century and to no positive result. What good the PhDs?
    Sorry for what? Calling Psychology a non-science?

    No need for an apology, but if that's what you meant, you're simply misinformed. Psychology isn't just someone laying on a couch and telling the therapist about their mother issues, as so many seem to believe. That's a tiny percentage, actually.
    --
    Bruce Tait
    A.S. (Criminal Justice) Quincy College
    B.A. (Criminal Justice) Curry College
    M.A. (Criminal Justice) University of Massachusetts-Lowell
    M.A. (Forensic & Counseling Psychology) Massachusetts School of Professional Psychology
    Certificate (Investigative Psychology) CUNY-John Jay College of Criminal Justice

    MOOC's
    Certificate (Disability Awareness and Support in Higher Education) University of Pittsburgh
    Certificate (International Criminal Law) Case Western Reserve University
    Certificate (Psychology of Criminal Justice) University of Queensland
    Certificate (Classical Sociological Theory) University of Amsterdam



    RA Criminal Justice Degrees by Distance Learning - Updated 3/16/08

    NA Criminal Justice Degrees by Distance Learning - Updated 3/20/08

  8. Advertisement

  9. #8
    sanantone is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,460
    The market for practicing psychologists is very good. There are several government programs that will reimburse you for your student loans due to the severe shortage. There just aren't enough clinical sites for training. I would expect that some here wouldn't recognize the advances in mental health practices because they have untreated mental problems themselves. Anyway, I know a lot of veterans suffering from PTSD who are very grateful. And, the substance abuse program I worked in significantly lowered recidivism rates.
    Last edited by sanantone; 07-30-2017 at 11:53 AM.
    Texas State University - PhD CJ (ABD)
    Angelo State University - Master of Security Studies and Grad Cert Terrorism
    Thomas Edison State College/University - BA Soc Sci, AAS in Environmental Safety, ASNSM in Biology, & BSBA in CIS

  10. #9
    Johann is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,336
    Quote Originally Posted by sanantone
    I would expect that some here wouldn't recognize the advances in mental health practices because they have untreated mental problems themselves.
    I believe an untreated disorder is mandatory for Internet access. I don't "suffer" from mine - but I make sure others do. It's a gift.

    J.
    Last edited by Johann; 07-30-2017 at 12:24 PM.

  11. #10
    decimon is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    4,221
    Quote Originally Posted by sanantone View Post
    I would expect that some here wouldn't recognize the advances in mental health practices because they have untreated mental problems themselves.

    That's the oldest dodge in the book.

    The question is what of mental health has improved.

  12. #11
    Johann is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,336
    I believe quite a lot has improved, decimon. I'm no expert; my only knowledge comes from personal observation/experience and about 18 units of undergrad psych, some 30-or-so years ago.

    Here's an outfit that posts about advances in the past 30 years. https://www.bbrfoundation.org/about/timeline

    Many journals post details of new treatments etc. regularly. I used to have to read and cite some, for essays. It's a constantly improving field. Certainly, a lot of work has been done re: addiction, depression, criminal rehabilitation and lots else. We're certainly not "there" yet and will likely never be. Life is not perfect. And psychology is really a multi-pronged discipline, given to specialization.

    J.
    Last edited by Johann; 07-30-2017 at 01:05 PM.

  13. #12
    decimon is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    4,221
    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    Certainly, a lot of work has been done re: addiction, depression, criminal rehabilitation and lots else. We're certainly not "there" yet and will likely never be. Life is not perfect.

    J.

    Are you saying that there is less addiction, less depression and more criminal rehabilitation than a hundred years ago?

  14. #13
    sanantone is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,460
    Quote Originally Posted by decimon View Post
    Are you saying that there is less addiction, less depression and more criminal rehabilitation than a hundred years ago?
    You seem to be mixing things up. Advances in social science are usually a reaction to societal problems. You seem to think they are the cause of societal problems. Physicians over-prescribing opiates, which is the main cause of the current heroin epidemic, has nothing to do with social science. The government turning a blind eye to Nicaraguans supplying urban neighborhoods with crack also has nothing to do with social science. Urbanization also has nothing to do with social science. HIV wasn't around in the past. Do you blame the medical field for it existing? Allergy rates have skyrocketed over the past 100 years, especially the past 20 years. Are you going to blame the medical field for increases in diabetes, cancer, and obesity?

    You seem to think everything was great 100 years ago. As a black person, you couldn't pay me a billion dollars to time travel back to 1917. Even if I weren't black, I'd likely be a dirt poor southerner who would die by the age of 55.

    One major advance in mental health treatment is cognitive behavioral therapy. CBT has helped millions with various mood, anxiety, and substance use disorders. You seem to think that there were less problems in the past. The truth is that they were just better hidden. The mentally ill were locked away in asylums. A lot of people just simply died of their addictions without any treatment.
    Texas State University - PhD CJ (ABD)
    Angelo State University - Master of Security Studies and Grad Cert Terrorism
    Thomas Edison State College/University - BA Soc Sci, AAS in Environmental Safety, ASNSM in Biology, & BSBA in CIS

  15. #14
    decimon is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    4,221
    Quote Originally Posted by sanantone View Post
    You seem to be mixing things up. Advances in social science are usually a reaction to societal problems. You seem to think they are the cause of societal problems. Physicians over-prescribing opiates, which is the main cause of the current heroin epidemic, has nothing to do with social science. The government turning a blind eye to Nicaraguans supplying urban neighborhoods with crack also has nothing to do with social science. Urbanization also has nothing to do with social science. HIV wasn't around in the past. Do you blame the medical field for it existing? Allergy rates have skyrocketed over the past 100 years, especially the past 20 years. Are you going to blame the medical field for increases in diabetes, cancer, and obesity?

    You seem to think everything was great 100 years ago. As a black person, you couldn't pay me a billion dollars to time travel back to 1917. Even if I weren't black, I'd likely be a dirt poor southerner who would die by the age of 55.

    One major advance in mental health treatment is cognitive behavioral therapy. CBT has helped millions with various mood, anxiety, and substance use disorders. You seem to think that there were less problems in the past. The truth is that they were just better hidden. The mentally ill were locked away in asylums. A lot of people just simply died of their addictions without any treatment.

    I haven't enough life left to address all of that. And you left out the moon landings.

  16. Advertisement

  17. #15
    sanantone is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,460
    Quote Originally Posted by decimon View Post
    I haven't enough life left to address all of that. And you left out the moon landings.
    Talk about dodging.
    Texas State University - PhD CJ (ABD)
    Angelo State University - Master of Security Studies and Grad Cert Terrorism
    Thomas Edison State College/University - BA Soc Sci, AAS in Environmental Safety, ASNSM in Biology, & BSBA in CIS

  18. #16
    heirophant is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    616
    Regarding the topic in the subject line, the "ever-tightening job market for PhDs", I'll say that I once thought that distance learning was a possible solution for those of us who had deep intellectual interests in our subjects but looked forward to few good job prospects after earning a graduate degree. My hope was that DL would enable people like me to study part-time from wherever we were, while still holding down a day-job.

    Unfortunately, it hasn't really worked out that way. Online doctorates are still few and far between, despite DL having become commonplace and ubiquitous in the last 25 years. And the few online doctorates that exist are most often hugely expensive while offering none of the institutional financial support like that full-time on-campus doctoral students often receive. So the way the programs are designed, they are pretty much guaranteed to be as bad an option as quitting jobs, moving to college towns and studying full-time on-campus. What's more, DL doctorates are almost always offered in high-demand subjects which kind of defeats the purpose that I'd envisioned for them, as a haven for low-demand subjects allowing programs with small on-campus enrollments to offer them to a much larger pool of prospective students.

    Even worse, even other DL students have hardly been supportive. There have been no end of "Want fries with that?" threads right here on Degreeinfo. Back when I was posting under my real name, I remember arguing endlessly with otherwise smart people who loudly and vehemently insisted that people like me had no business studying subjects like philosophy at a graduate level, because there are so few good teaching jobs out there. Which seemed to me to miss the entire point.

    Degreeinfo had seemingly become a bad caricature of high-school, with the jocks tormenting the more scholarly nerds.

Similar Threads

  1. What about the MBA market?
    By Koolcypher in forum General Distance Learning Discussions
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-20-2010, 08:23 PM
  2. Horrible Job Market -
    By Pilot in forum General Distance Learning Discussions
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 08-06-2010, 06:22 AM
  3. Some issues you might run into in the IT job market...
    By jimnagrom in forum IT and Computer-Related Degrees
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-18-2006, 04:47 AM
  4. Why not let the market decide?
    By thomaskolter in forum Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approval, and unaccredited schools)
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 08-08-2006, 12:32 PM
  5. Serving the Market
    By Tom Rogers in forum General Distance Learning Discussions
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 10-14-2001, 10:54 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts




1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197