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Thread: Fender Online

  1. #1
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Fender Online

    Online guitar lessons are not new, but Fender Online is

    https://fortune.com/2017/07/06/guita...ning-business/
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  2. #2
    Johann is offline Registered User
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    I can understand the dropout rate, but I'm surprised to see so many beginners (and dropouts) with Fenders, which are great - and expensive - instruments. When he was in his teens, I bought my son a Fender for his 15th birthday, but he'd been playing lesser instruments for 2-3 years. His first cost him $12. Now, he's 47 and has two Fenders. Old and new are doing fine and get played regularly.

    I don't foresee mega-success here. If you want online instruction, there are oodles of paid or free sources. Including, of course, YouTube - a fantastic source, no matter what your style. What's different about the Fender offering?

    BTW - My grandson's getting a Les Paul from me for his 18th, this month. Terrific rock player, other stuff too. Learned a lot of his chops from Rocksmith. Good source, for his style.

    J.
    Last edited by Johann; 07-07-2017 at 01:42 PM.

  3. #3
    sideman is offline Registered User
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    As a player and former instructor, many, many moons ago, I would suggest to anyone just starting out to get professional lessons with a good instructor, one on one. Then, if and when they become a competent player, feel free to explore and participate in online training. In the beginning, with someone looking over your shoulder, offering guidance and encouragement, and answering your questions on the spot, I believe you get well grounded in the basics. Just my .02.
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  4. #4
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    I can understand the dropout rate, but I'm surprised to see so many beginners (and dropouts) with Fenders, which are great - and expensive - instruments.
    That used to be true, but Fender diluted their brand many years ago by allowing the Fender label to be used on instruments made outside the United States. You can buy a new guitar with Fender on the headstock that's made in Mexico, Singapore, or South Korea. The quality ranges from good to questionable, but they all have the Fender logo.

    I bought this Fender on-sale awhile ago for $449.00;

    Fender Special Edition Standard Stratocaster Electric Guitar Black | Musician's Friend

    I then pulled the pickups/pickguard and dropped one of these in that I got on-sale for $189 at Amazon;

    https://www.amazon.com/Lace-Sensor-4...nsor+pickguard

    For less than $700, I ended up with a really sweet guitar that I lent out to a friend of mine who gigs, and he now wants to buy it, but getting me to sell a guitar is like performing an amputation.

    Gibson, on the other hand, has preserved Gibson as meaning solely made in the United States, their more budget-conscious models made outside the US wear the Epiphone label.

    That being said, I have a bone-stock 1962-reissue Fender Telecaster that was made in Japan that I bought new back in the 1980's, and the quality is tremendous. I'd say as good, if not better than the CBS-era Fenders made in the United States.
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  5. #5
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    I don't listen carefully to pop music, just what I hear on the radio, but my casual sense is that the rock era is over. The guitar heroes of the 60s, 70s and 80s are all gone and the new generation of pop music is not nearly as oriented to the guitar. It's more electronic and oriented to the vocals. Rock and roll will never die but as the baby boomers begin to populate the nursing homes their music will be relegated exclusively to oldies stations.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...=.57612a75052c
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  6. #6
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    I don't listen carefully to pop music, just what I hear on the radio, but my casual sense is that the rock era is over. The guitar heroes of the 60s, 70s and 80s are all gone and the new generation of pop music is not nearly as oriented to the guitar. It's more electronic and oriented to the vocals. Rock and roll will never die but as the baby boomers begin to populate the nursing homes their music will be relegated exclusively to oldies stations.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...=.57612a75052c
    Decca Records infamously rejected the Beatles after their first audition, stating "guitar groups are on the way out".
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  7. #7
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Yeah, that was 50 years ago. But if you want to join us in the world of 2017 then take a look at the top 10 musical artists (or top 20, or 30) based on sales you'll find very few groups are fronted by a guitarist and most people would be hard pressed to even name the guitarist in most groups. Once upon a time, jazz was the dominant music form and now it's something that people spin past on the radio dial while searching for Beyoncé or Arianna Grande. You can still find jazz on the radio just as you can still find jazz clubs in most cities (Sculler's is a good one in Boston) but most people don't listen to jazz and couldn't name more than a few current performers. There will always be guitar oriented rock bands around but they have stopped dominating the music scene. Just look at the Billboard charts or any other measure of music sales. Look at the groups. Can you name the guitarist? Most people can not.
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  9. #8
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    Yeah, that was 50 years ago. But if you want to join us in the world of 2017 then take a look at the top 10 musical artists (or top 20, or 30) based on sales you'll find very few groups are fronted by a guitarist and most people would be hard pressed to even name the guitarist in most groups. Once upon a time, jazz was the dominant music form and now it's something that people spin past on the radio dial while searching for Beyoncé or Arianna Grande. You can still find jazz on the radio just as you can still find jazz clubs in most cities (Sculler's is a good one in Boston) but most people don't listen to jazz and couldn't name more than a few current performers. There will always be guitar oriented rock bands around but they have stopped dominating the music scene. Just look at the Billboard charts or any other measure of music sales. Look at the groups. Can you name the guitarist? Most people can not.
    Everything is cyclical. The death of the guitar has been reported many, many times over the years, yet it remains.

    Disco was supposed to kill off the era of guitar-dominated groups, and it looked bleak for awhile until groups like Aerosmith and Boston resurrected guitar-oriented music; even the Rolling Stones pretty much sold out during that time period.

    When I started playing, you had a handful of options for a decent guitar; Gibson, Fender, Guild, Rickenbacker, and Gretsch were about it. Now, there are limitless options for players of all genres, skill levels, and budgets.

    The guitar is doing just fine.
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  10. #9
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    When I started playing . . .
    I'm supplying facts, you're supplying emotion. It's a good thing it doesn't matter.
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  11. #10
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    I'm supplying facts, you're supplying emotion. It's a good thing it doesn't matter.
    You took the first 4 words of what I said, cut it off there, and say that I'm supplying emotion? Are you applying for a job at CNN or something?

    There's nothing emotional about the rest of what I said. The late-70's and early-80's were bleak days for guitar enthusiasts and guitar manufacturers; most guitars affordable to beginners were of crappy quality, there wasn't many mid-range options, and the decent guitars were very expensive.

    Now, beginning and intermediate players have a wide range to choose from; Ibanez, Yamaha, Epiphone, and Fender (just to name a few) have a very wide selection of imported guitars for that market, with very good build quality, playability, and tone.

    If the guitar is fading away, who's buying all these instruments, and why?
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  12. #11
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    If the guitar is fading away, who's buying all these instruments, and why?
    If you read the article I posted then you might know the answer.
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  13. #12
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    You took the first 4 words of what I said, cut it off there, and say that I'm supplying emotion? Are you applying for a job at CNN or something?
    Because you are a player of that instrument you have no objectivity. You don't want it to be true so you just say it's not true. You pay no attention to the facts that don't support your case and you cherry-pick the ones you validate. That's "emotional." As for CNN, you're the one who claims that this has happened many, many times before yet you don't provide a single example or fact to back your position. All those old rockers are fading away. They're just getting older, not performing, etc. Very few new performers of the same type are coming up to replace them. Are there some? Of course there are some. Is the rock guitar going to disappear? Of course it's not. But it has lost it's dominance in the music world. When a contemporary band, you know, one that's actually on the sales charts, is on stage, the guitarist is far less likely to be in the spotlight. That's all I'm saying, it's lost it's dominant position. Rock and role may never die but hiphop, whether you like it or not, is the number one music form in the pop music world right now. That is just a fact.
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  14. #13
    decimon is offline Registered User
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    We have a banjo boy rumble here?

  15. #14
    Johann is offline Registered User
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    "Happy death of Rock 'n Roll." I remember reading that line in a poem of "predictions" for 1957 - or was it '56. Right...

    I'd be disappointed if someone wrote more than five words about the guitar without being appropriately "emotional," i.e. enthusiastic. It would have to be a person with zero connection to the instrument. That's all I have, on that point. Now, what Bruce wrote about Fender diluting their brand -- so true. You can now get a "Starcaster by Fender" - some look like Stratocasters, others have single humbuckers. One of these with a practice amp goes for around $100 complete in the U.S.

    Fender has also put its name on a cheap offshore-manufactured range of harmonicas. Suzuki already makes very good ones for the same price (around $20.) When I started, (early 60s) Hohner Marine Bands were the standard and cost $2.95. They're now $63+ each in Canada, so most players started looking elsewhere a LONG time ago.

    And those Lace Sensor pickups -- great idea, Bruce. Well worth every penny. Happy playing!

    J.

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  17. #15
    Bruce is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    Because you are a player of that instrument you have no objectivity. You don't want it to be true so you just say it's not true. You pay no attention to the facts that don't support your case and you cherry-pick the ones you validate. That's "emotional."
    What I stated about the availability and affordability of electric guitars in the late-70's compared to now is 100% fact, there's not a shred of emotion associated with it, so I have no idea what point you're trying to prove.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    As for CNN, you're the one who claims that this has happened many, many times before yet you don't provide a single example or fact to back your position.
    Really? I have no desire to turn this into a political debate, but since you raised the issue;

    1. Right after Trump's inaguration, CNN published a story that said Nancy Sinatra was furious that President Trump and the First Lady elected to have their first dance to "My Way" by Frank Sinatra.

    Fake news, Nancy Sinatra never said any such thing.

    2. CNN ran with a story that Trump had set-up Twitter accounts for likely SCOTUS nominees, including Neil Gorsuch, that were filled with outrageous tweets.

    The accounts were completely fake, forged by amateur pranksters, but CNN never checked.

    3. More recently, CNN ran with a story alleging ties between Russian government operatives and people in the Trump campaign.

    Fake news, 3 CNN reporters had to resign in disgrace.

    4. CNN employee Donna Brazile fed debate questions to the Hillary Clinton campaign, ahead of the debate.

    CNN denied it, until Brazile admitted doing it.

    5. CNN reported that President Trump ignored the "Wall of Heroes" (names of CIA employees killed in the line of duty) when he gave a speech to CIA employees at Langley.

    Fake news, Trump gave a strong message of sympathy and support to all CIA employees.

    I could go on and on, but it's just too easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kizmet View Post
    All those old rockers are fading away. They're just getting older, not performing, etc. Very few new performers of the same type are coming up to replace them. Are there some? Of course there are some. Is the rock guitar going to disappear? Of course it's not. But it has lost it's dominance in the music world. When a contemporary band, you know, one that's actually on the sales charts, is on stage, the guitarist is far less likely to be in the spotlight. That's all I'm saying, it's lost it's dominant position. Rock and role may never die but hiphop, whether you like it or not, is the number one music form in the pop music world right now. That is just a fact.
    I still don't know what you're trying to prove. As I said, music is cyclical, as is almost everything else. There are many exciting young players up and coming, if you follow their genres. There's no doubt whatsoever in my mind that the next Eddie Van Halen or Ritchie Blackmore will explode onto the scene in the coming years.

    Oh, and if you think that the "old rockers" are "fading away", take a look at Jeff Beck playing live earlier this year;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do_yZMXWK6U
    Last edited by Bruce; 07-08-2017 at 07:46 PM.
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  18. #16
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
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    You keep returning to this idea of the availability/affordability of guitars when my argument is about the decline of rock music as a genre. Sure, with the rise of the internet you can buy anything from the comfort of your living room, even if you live in some small town without a music store. But that's not my point. And sure, there will be a few new flashy guitarists on the scene coming up in years to come and they will find some success. I said that myself. That's not the point. The entire genre is fading and not even a few fantastic guitarists will change that. I'm glad Jeff Beck is still around and performing but at 70+ years old his time on stage is growing short. Clapton is retiring from performing. George Harrison , Jerry Garcia, Chuck Berry all iconic guitarists now sadly gone. A whole generation of players are right behind them. A few kids will come up and replace them but rock music and the rock guitar are no longer the dominant genre of pop music and every year there is less of it to be found on the radio, etc. Who plays guitar behind Taylor Swift or Beyoncé or One Direction or Calvin Harris. No one knows and no one cares. That's my point.
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