+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 16 of 25
  1. #1
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    between the devil and the deep blue sea
    Posts
    15,142

    Fewer Students & Less Tuition

    the lean years of higher education

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/07/e...tionfront&_r=0
    American College of Sports Medicine

  2. #2
    decimon is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    4,206
    I believe that people formerly known as male are now more likely to forego college than are people formerly known as female. That will of course result in less STEM on campus.

  3. #3
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Northern Virginia & Dominica, West Indies
    Posts
    10,850
    When people find acknowledgement of transgenderism so threatening that they refer to it even when it's not the topic at hand.
    BS, Info Sys concentration, Charter Oak State College
    MA in Educational Tech, George Washington University
    PhD in Leadership, U. of the Cumberlands (in progress)
    More at http://stevefoerster.com

  4. #4
    decimon is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    4,206
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFoerster View Post
    When people find acknowledgement of transgenderism so threatening that they refer to it even when it's not the topic at hand.

    Government coercion is what's threatening, Mr. Libertarian. Transgenderism is as real as mermaidism.

  5. #5
    heirophant is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    609
    Quote Originally Posted by decimon View Post
    I believe that people formerly known as male are now more likely to forego college than are people formerly known as female. That will of course result in less STEM on campus.
    I agree. They have had some success attracting females into the (less abstract and mathematical) biological sciences. But despite absolutely Herculean efforts, the percentage of females in physics hasn't risen a whole lot.

    The New York Times article places part of the blame for higher education 's current struggles on declining enrollments and tuition revenues. Except that enrollments aren't small by historical standards, They are still hugely above university enrollments in the 1960's. Tuition has risen far faster than inflation. (I graduated from my MA program in 2000 and paid $4,200 for it, out of pocket. Today the same program is upwards of $15,000.)

    The article notes: "More than half of the $4.1 billion allocated for state universities and colleges in Illinois, for instance, now goes not to teaching or research, but to pay retirement costs, the Illinois Policy Institute says." So part of higher education 's problem (like the US 'Wall Street' economy in general, perhaps) is that it is built on the unrealistic assumption of endless growth. That's allowed tremendous management indiscipline as labor unions basically controlled the universities, and debts were accrued with the blithe assumption that growth in future years would pay it all off.

    During the last generation, since the 1960's, one of the several things that's driven skyrocketing and ever-increasing university enrollments was female applicants. But that's a limited resource that's basically been tapped out. All the females who want to enroll in universities already are.

    Now what we are seeing is something new and extremely ugly, universities knowingly and intentionally making themselves into hostile and unwelcoming places for large segments of the population: males, Caucasians, heterosexuals, Christians and (especially) Republicans. Then they act surprised when enrollments plateau and start to drop. Gee, wonder why...
    Last edited by heirophant; 06-12-2017 at 07:22 AM.

  6. #6
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Northern Virginia & Dominica, West Indies
    Posts
    10,850
    Quote Originally Posted by decimon View Post
    Government coercion is what's threatening, Mr. Libertarian.
    So far I'm with you. If your point is that enforced speech when it comes to people's pronoun preferences is wrong, then we agree. If your point is that of all the problems higher education has that this sort of thing is what's significantly depressing people's interest in attending university, then I seriously doubt it, and it would take clear research to convince me otherwise.

    Transgenderism is as real as mermaidism.
    If it were only a psychological phenomenon then I would understand this position. But it's not, it's a physical neurological phenomenon.
    BS, Info Sys concentration, Charter Oak State College
    MA in Educational Tech, George Washington University
    PhD in Leadership, U. of the Cumberlands (in progress)
    More at http://stevefoerster.com

  7. #7
    decimon is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    4,206
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFoerster View Post
    If it were only a psychological phenomenon then I would understand this position. But it's not, it's a physical neurological phenomenon.

    First sentence: Some children insist, from the moment they can speak, that they are not the gender indicated by their biological sex.

    Anyone buying that?

  8. Advertisement

  9. #8
    SteveFoerster is offline Resident Gadfly
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Northern Virginia & Dominica, West Indies
    Posts
    10,850
    Quote Originally Posted by decimon View Post
    First sentence: Some children insist, from the moment they can speak, that they are not the gender indicated by their biological sex.

    Anyone buying that?
    There are more sentences that follow, which help to explain that claim.
    BS, Info Sys concentration, Charter Oak State College
    MA in Educational Tech, George Washington University
    PhD in Leadership, U. of the Cumberlands (in progress)
    More at http://stevefoerster.com

  10. #9
    decimon is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    4,206
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveFoerster View Post
    There are more sentences that follow, which help to explain that claim.
    "Of course, behavior and experience shape brain anatomy, so it is impossible to say if these subtle differences are inborn."


    You believe that people can become the opposite gender?

  11. #10
    Lerner is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    NY, NY
    Posts
    2,540
    Talking about STEM

    Becoming an engineer is tough, and for that reason, there aren’t all that many skilled applicants out there to fill employers’ demand. Engineering jobs pay well and are pretty secure, and there are roughly 47,000 unfilled positions out there, according to estimates.
    In my experience the filed is 75% male dominated.

    In Health case we can see more female employees and less STEM.
    Administrators aren’t just needed in IT and computer roles — the health care field is also in clear need of additional levels of bureaucracy. Healthcare is a complicated field, and the sector requires many specialties and skill sets. If you’re interested, there are 52,000 open positions out there to gun for.

  12. #11
    Stanislav is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    2,117
    Quote Originally Posted by heirophant View Post
    Now what we are seeing is something new and extremely ugly, universities knowingly and intentionally making themselves into hostile and unwelcoming places for large segments of the population: males, Caucasians, heterosexuals, Christians and (especially) Republicans. Then they act surprised when enrollments plateau and start to drop. Gee, wonder why...
    Yessss. Hostile to heterosexuals. Specifically, regional campii of the University System of Georgia are hostile. To heterosexuals. That's plausible.

    Sometimes I feel like I'm back home reading garbage produced by Kremlin shills.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Stanislav
    BS, MS (Applied Maths, Nat'l Technical U. of Ukraine)
    PhD (Computer Science, Florida State University)
    Certificate in Community College Teaching, CSU-DH
    Online faculty workshops (Meritus University, Humber College, Yorkville University)
    LLB(Hons) Open Learning, Northumbria U. - pursuing

  13. #12
    Stanislav is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    2,117
    Quote Originally Posted by heirophant View Post
    I agree. They have had some success attracting females into the (less abstract and mathematical) biological sciences. But despite absolutely Herculean efforts, the percentage of females in physics hasn't risen a whole lot.
    As a father of daughters, I hope you have everything you deserve coming to you.

    As for females preferring life sciences: given that LS presents more realistic career paths than Physics does, it may mean that the female gender, as currently socialized, is more rational and sane. That's probably true. Further, maybe the only reason ladies are not recognized for our natural masters only due to the Hermione effect. Of course, far likelier explanation is that the STEM culture is not very welcoming to females (and it's not. Have you heard the "guinea pig" joke?).
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Stanislav
    BS, MS (Applied Maths, Nat'l Technical U. of Ukraine)
    PhD (Computer Science, Florida State University)
    Certificate in Community College Teaching, CSU-DH
    Online faculty workshops (Meritus University, Humber College, Yorkville University)
    LLB(Hons) Open Learning, Northumbria U. - pursuing

  14. #13
    FTFaculty is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    615
    My wife did her graduate (math) and undergraduate (math/physics) work in STEM disciplines and later taught mathematics at a Pac12 (her supervisor was also a woman). After that, she worked for an F500 in computer programming (again, boss was a woman). Felt nothing but acceptance and encouragement the whole way, and that's going back two to three decades ago. Maybe she danced between the raindrops, but I doubt it. The dean of the College of Science at the uni where I teach is female, as was the science dean at my previous college. Anecdotal, of course, but I tend to think the hostility to females in the STEM disciplines is overstated.
    Last edited by FTFaculty; 06-12-2017 at 03:13 PM.

  15. #14
    Kizmet is offline Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    between the devil and the deep blue sea
    Posts
    15,142
    It's a male dominated field and so you have to be willing to play with the boys. My motto: If you shoot the first one the word gets around.
    American College of Sports Medicine

  16. Advertisement

  17. #15
    Stanislav is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    2,117
    Quote Originally Posted by FTFaculty View Post
    My wife did her graduate (math) and undergraduate (math/physics) work in STEM disciplines and later taught mathematics at a Pac12 (her supervisor was also a woman). After that, she worked for an F500 in computer programming (again, boss was a woman). Felt nothing but acceptance and encouragement the whole way, and that's going back two to three decades ago. Maybe she danced between the raindrops, but I doubt it. The dean of the College of Science at the uni where I teach is female, as was the science dean at my previous college. Anecdotal, of course, but I tend to think the hostility to females in the STEM disciplines is overstated.
    Did we or did we not just see two men expressing a stereotype against women in STEM on this very thread (the one that was not even about women, or STEM)? There is more than one way to express a hostility, or just bias. People get deterred.

    A few anecdotes of my own: an instructor teaching me first two semesters of Programming was a woman; so was a senior full Professor teaching Numerical Methods. This fact did not stop at least three professors entertaining us with a hilarious joke comparing woman programmers/mathematicians/physicists with a guinea pig (a guinea pig, as you know, is not a pig, and is not found in any of the countries named Guinea). To my shame, I probably repeated this joke at least once in my youth. No, the professors were not hostile; just patronizing. Granted, that's in a visibly more backwards country, but it's not as if a sentiment is not found here (again, just scroll up this very page).

    Also, in my career, I met a few rather brilliant woman programmers. I also met some spectacularly dumb men who nevertheless got to have careers in software development. I did not meet even one sub-par female programmer. It's almost as if it's easier for you if you're a man.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Stanislav
    BS, MS (Applied Maths, Nat'l Technical U. of Ukraine)
    PhD (Computer Science, Florida State University)
    Certificate in Community College Teaching, CSU-DH
    Online faculty workshops (Meritus University, Humber College, Yorkville University)
    LLB(Hons) Open Learning, Northumbria U. - pursuing

  18. #16
    FTFaculty is offline Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    615
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanislav View Post
    Did we or did we not just see two men expressing a stereotype against women in STEM on this very thread (the one that was not even about women, or STEM)?
    A harmful stereotype would be "Women aren't into engineering or mathematics in large numbers because they lack logical reasoning skills", a correct observation is "There is a higher percentage of women involved in the health care professions than engineering ." The former is the sort of thing that deters and is nonsense, the latter shouldn't deter anyone, it's just the truth.

    Maybe you read between the lines too much so you don't get what's actually being said; maybe I didn't read carefully enough and missed something above; maybe it's a combo of the two--I don't know.

    In any event, I married a woman who'd qualify for Mensa if she were into that silliness and did PhD studies in pure mathematics--she didn't just take Calculus, she taught it. My oldest daughter started college in accounting two years early, got the high A in several classes including calc-based physics, and as a senior with a 3.97, is laying waste to every single man in her accounting class (and she just LOVES to beat men), she's set to graduate 1st or 2nd in class out of about 500 in her biz school later this year. Ivy League grad school material. My second oldest daughter wants to be a doctor and is 4.0 starting her sophomore year, she started college one year early. On the other hand, I am a plodder, a B+ student, an average mind with no STEM talent whatsoever, so it's not like you're dealing with someone here who's all that into man power. I see the brilliance of women in the hard sciences or heavy duty logic every day, just have to take a look at three women in my life, and I sincerely doubt either wife or daughters would let a stupid joke about a rodent deter them--in fact, they tell jokes about the cluelessness of men all the time, and I don't begrudge them that because I pretty much prove the point every day.

Similar Threads

  1. SoCal law school tempts students with free tuition
    By Jonathan Liu in forum General Distance Learning Discussions
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-25-2008, 02:26 AM
  2. South African tuition for foreign students
    By Matt R in forum General Distance Learning Discussions
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-30-2007, 03:16 AM
  3. Free tuition for Florida students
    By jimnagrom in forum General Distance Learning Discussions
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-08-2006, 05:46 PM
  4. Students sue for tuition parity with California illegals
    By alczar in forum Off-Topic Discussions
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 12-18-2005, 11:01 AM
  5. 1/2 Off Tuition at ACCS for International Students
    By BLD in forum General Distance Learning Discussions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-08-2003, 04:21 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts




1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15