A MA without BA: what kind of impression it would make in a résumé?

Dear all, I need an advice on my academic future.
I am currently enrolled at Excelsior, with about 30 credits to go to complete a BSL: apart from Algebra and another couple of science credits, quite a walk in the park, although time consuming (you know how hard is just to arrange a proctor or a Dantes test outside the US?).
Frankly, my only purpose when I enrolled was to complete a BA (any BA) just to be able to be accepted to a MA program, that would be useful for a career shift. Now, I have been accepted to a MA in International Relations at a quite renown brick-and-mortar university in Ireland. Because of my excellent professional background (I have been working as a foreign correspondent for over ten years, wrote a couple of books on international politics and so on), the MA program director obtained from the university a waiver to the graduation requirement. The course begins on next October 1st, and I am almost starting packing to move to Dublin.
My doubt is: should I make an additional effort and conclude my BSL anyway? According to your experience, what kind of impression would make a résumé with a MA but without a BA? My main goal is to use my academic credentials to increase my chances to get a job in an international organization or aid agency (they usually look for people with strong professional backgrounds but also with a higher degree – better if a PhD), but I also don’t put aside the possibility to spend some time teaching international journalism in some college.
I would highly appreciate any comment.
Thank you in advance,
Giancarlo

 

First, congratulations of being accepted in the MA program!

At least in the USA, it is highly unusual to see somebody with an MA, but not a BS/BA to go along with it. Generally the BS/BA degree has the breadth of study, and the extra 30 credits or so of masters credits take care of additional depth of knowledge in a field.
Bureaucrats like to check off the boxes on their forms, and anything different for the norm runs into problems. It does sound like you may have some reputation in your field however, and that may open all the doors you need.

I would say that a BA/BS wouldn't hurt your chances, and anything studied outside your current field leads to the well rounded education that a person with a BA/BS has. If you can swing it, 30 credits doesn't take that long, and while it might be a pain to schedule out of the USA, it does add a legitimate educational credential that in many cases opens up more doors than the extra 30 credits of a masters. While things do change a bit after "real work experience," if you are competing against others that have both a BA/BS and a MA, you would be at the disadvantage.

 

MA

It is not unusual for MA degrees to be a first degree in the British Isles. Oxford, Cambridge and Edinburgh all have this practice, and as far as I know so does Trinity College Dublin

 

supplemental

Few graduates from Oxford or Cambridge have a BA unless they did one somewhere else first. However, it can't do any harm to have a BA as well. Universities tend not to be as 'up tight' about things over there. A good example of this is my own recent acceptance onto a distance ed MA at a British University. They allowed me to send photocopies of my transcripts and certificates and they did not even wait for the references to arrive before offering a place on the course. What most likely happend was that the department head got on the phone to the university where I did my first degree nd asked them if I was OK.

 

BRAVO! Giancalo...Go for it!

BRAVO! Giancalo--

My response falls more in the category of opinion than "advice,"
but I say if it better suits your career goals or development, go the MA as first priority! (Nothing wrong with us adult-learners putting "cash value" ahead of stuffy tradition.)

I once studied in the UK, and I agree with the above: an MA first only looks odd to the bureaucratized American educated (or the education establishment)--in the UK it's a charming, accepted eccentricity, and nothing more.

But on the otherhand, if you're ready to sit a few exams before departing for Ireland, by all means take them and get them off your plate (i.e., follow the rule: GIVE yourself all the credential credits you're worth)! Then whatever happens you're that much closer to your goal....

Frankly, I believe you won't mind not having that "first degree" when you're done with your MA program. It sounds like the professionally appropriate "jewel" to have on you resume; absence of a lower level degree will not hurt you--too few will even care!

Whatever you should decide later, you can pick it up when you then and polish it off. If it then makes you feel better about yourself, then by all means, do it! Do it for the deep personal satisfaction. (Although, in America it used to be called "apple polishing"--something done because it looks good--not because it changes anything inside.)

Non-traditional adult learners are not "non-traditional" without our reasons--I say your reasons for a first degree can be bygones.

--Orson
PS Wasn't there a roughly parallel case (or two) in May or June on the board of an established writer whose publisher wanted him to have a PhD or PsyEd or PsyDoc on his resume in order to sell more books? Giancarlo, I think your earnest interest in completing the BSL is even less important than in the former case. It's the MA you want--your career credentials are too deservedly strong for it to be otherwise.

Then there is the case of Canadian Wendy McElroy (<http://www.zetetics.com/mac/>). She has a successful writing/editing/lecturing career without a university degree. Because of her life's circumstances, I'm not even sure she completed high school. She says she wished she'd had a more traditional education--but living lifes demands sometimes puts its traditions out of the usual order (like the successful second marriage, instead of doing so with the first). And now pushing age 50, I doubt if she looks longingly back and wants to do the nontrad hustle we are doing now--she simply doesn't need to.
Peace and success to you!

 

Magister

It is my understanding that the Magister (the MA) is the first degree in Germany. Any other sub-degrees are "diplomas".

Kenneth K. A.

 

For seven years (1991-98) I was involved in marketing the distance learning MBA of Heriot-Watt University, the only British Royal Chartered university that permits people without a Bachelor's to do the degree.

By 1998, this had become one of the 2 or 3 largest MBA programs in the world. About 40% of the students and graduates had no Bachelor's.

In our experience in the US and Canada (where it became the largest MBA of any kind), there was no known problem. We went through more than 1,000 company approval processes, and 99% were successful. I am pretty sure that similar things were done in many other countries.

Of course it could have been self-selecting in that people checked with their employers first, and were told "no," so they never applied. But I saw no evidence of that.

And a residential MBA program from a good university should have even fewer problems.

 

Re: Magister

Hi Kenneth,

that is wrong,

the "Magister Artium" is totally equivalent to a German "Diplom" (even by official law).

Both are first degrees, that is right, but they are on Master´s level, since they are both (minimum) 9 semester degrees (in average more than 12). We don´t have (so far) Bachelor´s degrees in between, but things are changing nowadays, since the whole EU is introducing the Bachelor/Master - system - but even then, the Diploma will still be officially on the same level as the (new) Master´s degree.

greets,
trigger

 

To triggersoft

Exactly.

This is what I said. An MA (Magister Artium) is traditionally a first degree in the German system. Certainly, I did not say that the German MA is equivalent to a bachelor's degree!

As to your point about a diploma, I understand it. My point was in using the word in its generic sense.

I am not totally wrong, as you have opined.

Kenneth K. A.

 

KKA:

you' re right. There is no Bachelor's degree in Germany - these are called "Diplom" = "Diplomas". There is only the the "Magister Artium" (M.A.) and of course Doctorates

adelheid

 

Giancarlo:

I think that with your extensive background and a Masters, an undergraduate degree would almost go un-noticed.

I say Congrats! and go for your Masters.

 

An interesting discussion in this thread Sunday.
However, if I may refocus, I think Giancarlo is especially anxious to know how his resume would be received with Int'l aid outfits (thus, probably New York City), or in American colleges, especially journalism schools...?
ANYONE with contacts to dun?

--Orson

 

@ KKA:

okay, it seems I´ve gotten your words wrong. Sorry about that.
I´ve understood your words in the way you´re putting the German M.A.´s and the Diplomas on the same level as the US Bachelor´s.


@ Adelheid:

the law is (roughly):

German FH-Diplom = British Bachelor with Honours Degree
German University Diplom = Master´s Degree

The U.S. Bachelor´s degree is seen as roughly 3/4 of the German University Diplom (or, to be more specific: as German Vordiplom + 2 Semesters)

Greets,
Trigger

 

How would someone (Giancarlo) list his credential on his resume in the U.S?

B.A. (waived)
M.A. University of Ireland

 

things on a resume

Th original question was if a MA on a resume looked emoloyable without a BA?

The likelyhood is dependant on who is reading it and what you are applying for. In my veiw a MA always looks better than a BA regardles of whether there is a BA or not, but this is a product of my own snobbery.

My own experience in this matter revolves around whether to use academic qualifications or not. My current occupation is a High School Teacher in Otario. I teach both technology and academic subjects. For this it was absolutely neccesary to have a B.Ed and membership of the Ontario College of Teachers'.

To make my resume look good I stuffed it with every qualification I could pull from the woodwork. I was after all applying for a job in education, and this required academic achievement.

Prior to being a teacher I was a machinist. When I applyed for a job doing this, it was certain suicide to use any university degree at all. The mere hint of a BA would cause my resume to be filed in the waste basket and archived on the dump. If I restricted my resume to, City & Guilds and Ontario machinist licence, the telephone would give me no peace.

My point is if you are looking for a position that requires academic credentials, well, 'the more and higher the better'.

 

To triggersoft

No problem, at all!

I am always interested in learning more. Thanks.

Now, if you can explain to me the primary and secondary levels of education in terms of the US system, I'd be very, very impressed! LOL


Kenneth K. A.

 

MBA without BA as first degree

A small correction to a statement by John Bear:

"For seven years (1991-98) I was involved in marketing the distance learning MBA of Heriot-Watt University, the only British Royal Chartered university that permits people without a Bachelor's to do the degree." John Bear

Almost all British Universities (all of which have Royal Charters - it being illegal to use the name University in the UK without one) accept students for higher degrees who do not have first degrees. This is done on a case by case basis. This applies to the top universities also, even for PhDs: for example, Cambridge University admitted Jane Goodhall, of primatology fame, to undertake her PhD without any educational qualifications. Most universities do not advertise this access route, and most use it.

The current proportion of MBA students at Heriot-Watt (Edinburgh Business School) without a prior first degree is 12 per cent. However, to matriculate (register) they must first pass two final examinations in two compulsory subjects or pass the University's Certificate of Business Administration (3 subjects). Hence, 88 per cent have first degrees, of which twenty percent have Mscs and PhDs.

 

Greetings to Prof. Gavin Kennedy of EBS!

Interesting numbers. It would also be interesting to know the completion rate for the 12% without a prior first degree versus completion rate for the 88% with prior degree.

 

Completion rate

Of those who pass the two compulsory exmainations or Certificate in Business Administration necessary to matriculate, their performance is not different from those with first degrees. They could be from the same population statistically.

However, the proportion of those without first degrees or other professional qualifications who do not pass their examinations, as would be expected, is higher than for persons sitting the same examinations who have first degrees (though, of course, some of this group fail their exams too). The two exams rule does weed out people who do not have the ability, or the commitment, necessary for an MBA by distance learning.