Feedback from state boards and Academic evaluation services re: IUGS & NAB

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Jan, Jan 26, 2017.

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  1. Jan

    Jan Member

    For those posters who are interested, I contacted a number of state boards of licensure as well as academic evaluation services, some of whom were subcontracted by the AACRO, to attempt to gain a consensus as to the credibility and recognition of NAB and IUGS, the legitimate use of the title "Doctor" from this school and whether it was considered equivalent to RA schools in the US. This was what I found:

    Of the three state boards I contacted, two indicated that they would allow the recipient of doctorates from any foreign school which is accredited by a legitimate accrediting board, to use the title "Doctor". One state board indicated that the doctorate from IUGS and NAB would not meet their criteria and that it would have to be equivalent to an RA accredited doctorate in order to refer oneself as "Doctor".

    Of the six academic evaluation services contacted, four stated that NAB is a legitimate accreditation entity, one indicated that they would definitely not deem it equivalent to a RA doctorate and the fourth opined that based on the unaccredited history of IUGS, the negative press regarding this school in the past, they could not declare this school or NAB as being equivalent to an RA doctorate and would not recommend it.

    Bottomline: Due to the disparate opinions from the Academic evaluation services and one state board, its my impression that if one wishes to obtain this degree/doctorate for purposes of title, and wish to avoid any question as to the validity and credibility of their doctorate, they should obtain approval from the state board in which they reside. One cannot rely on the opinions of the academic evaluation services to base their decision as to whether to attend this school due to there being a lack of consensus from one service to another.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2017
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Fascinating. Which states, and which evaluators?
     
  3. novadar

    novadar Member

    Please explain what "subcontracted by the AACRO" means. NACES member firms issue evaluations on their own and their opinions stand independent of the AACRO. Just wondering if the statement is intended to mean something that it in fact does not.
     
  4. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I expect he means AACRAO, which used to offer a foreign credential evaluation service where they subcontracted the actual evaluations to a set of third parties, mostly smaller NACES members but also one that's not a NACES member. AACRAO discontinued the service last year, though.
     
  5. Jan

    Jan Member

    "novadar;498207]Please explain what "subcontracted by the AACRO" means.

    Just as stated, AACRO previously "subcontracted" several academic evaluation services to evaluate clients' academic credentials for equivalency to regionally accredited standards, when ACCRO offered this evaluation service. However, AACRO no longer offers this service and therefore provides a list of these other academic evaluation services for those who require such evaluations.

    "NACES member firms issue evaluations on their own and their opinions stand independent of AACRO".

    Yes, NACES listed academic evaluation services offer their independent opinions BUT they are NOT independent from AACRO because AACRO no longer offers academic evaluations services but refers to services they previously "subcontracted" with, including some academic evaluation services which are NACES approved! In fact, although I did not mention in my original post, several of the academic evaluation services I contacted were members of NACES.

    "Just wondering if the statement is intended to mean something that it in fact does not.[/QUOTE]".

    Please clarify your above statement.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2017
  6. Jan

    Jan Member

    Foerster, are you being facetious when you state "Fascinating"?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2017
  7. Jan

    Jan Member

    Foerster, are you being facetious when you state "Fascinating"?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2017
  8. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    This sounds about right. Jan's research confirm that IUGS doctorate does have utility, even when professional Boards come into play; however, this utility is not absolute. Since there seems to be not much competition in "doctoral degree completion" segment, it appears that the school can be valid choice for a relatively limited number of students. The other guys operating at this particular fringe is UCN/Azteca group, which appears to be cheaper and with connection to Nicaragua, which has more robust HE sector than Dominica. Both schools are too obscure to really evaluate their quality. Both schools' English-language Web presence is quite poor; IUGS has less excuses on this given the tuition they charge. It is important for an applicant to either to evaluate their present and potential future needs really, really carefully and make sure either degree would serve them.
     
  9. Jan

    Jan Member

    Stanislav:"This sounds about right. Jan's research confirm that IUGS doctorate does have utility, even when professional Boards come into play; however, this utility is not absolute. Since there seems to be not much competition in "doctoral degree completion" segment, it appears that the school can be valid choice for a relatively limited number of students. The other guys operating at this particular fringe is UCN/Azteca group, which appears to be cheaper and with connection to Nicaragua, which has more robust HE sector than Dominica. Both schools are too obscure to really evaluate their quality. Both schools' English-language Web presence is quite poor; IUGS has less excuses on this given the tuition they charge. It is important for an applicant to either to evaluate their present and potential future needs really, really carefully and make sure either degree would serve them.[/QUOTE]

    Stanislav, your observations are accurate. Although there are state licensing boards that allow one to use the "IUGS" doctorate for title, the very nature of the requirements for obtaining the doctorate, including IUGS accepting continuing education course credits towards this degree, imo, leads to serious questions as to the substance and credibility of this credential.
     
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    No. I actually do want to know more about your methodology and results.
     
  11. Jan

    Jan Member

    Quite frankly, your antagonistic and hostile comments directed towards many of my previous posts do not exactly lead to a collaborative open interaction and discussion. Equally important is that YOU did not conduct this "survey", considering the fact that you are attempting to gain accreditation from NAB for your new school! One would think that it would behoove you to have done so to obtain a general understanding of the level of recognition and acceptability of credentials from NAB.

    Regardless, there was no set "methodology" employed to obtain this information but my randomly contacting a significant number of NACES and ACCRAO listed academic evaluation services, many of whom did not answer the phone or return my call, but only six. As to the three state boards, they were also selected at random and represent the Northeast and Southern states.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2017
  12. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Quite frankly, many of your previous posts earned antagonistic and hostile commentary.

    However, most people don't actually bother do any research on these gray areas, and it's laudable that you did, so since you came back to report your results I thought I would take you seriously.
     
  13. Jan

    Jan Member

    SteveFoerster: "Quite frankly, many of your previous posts earned antagonistic and hostile commentary.

    However, most people don't actually bother do any research on these gray areas, and it's laudable that you did, so since you came back to report your results I thought I would take you seriously."

    My posts EARNED antagonistic and hostile commentary? Lets be clear, much of this "EARNING" came from you, your compatriot Levicoff and a few others, due to the fact that I disagreed with your/their recommendations and/or responses. In short, if one thinks independently and does not go along with the "program", they are targeted as being a problem. Not a good reflection on this forum to say the least.

    However, as noted in my previous post it should have been YOU who conducted this general random "survey", not me, because one would hope that you would want to have a general idea of the scope of acceptance and recognition of NAB in the US, as well as the schools it may accredit, including yours! This would have been the ethical thing to do. However, you didn't and although my findings are basic, it provided a glimpse of the positives and negatives of NAB and IUGS and I hope it helps those who are contemplating attending any degree programs from this accreditor.
     
  14. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    As I've repeatedly explained to you, Americans are not our target market, and therefore we don't need American perceptions. What you did is interesting to me personally, and I do still praise you for making the effort, but it's not necessary for us institutionally.

    You're welcome to the last word.
     
  15. novadar

    novadar Member

    ".


    The NACES firms I have dealt with had no relationship with AACRO. They are 100% completely independent of AACRO. Their evaluations are perfectly valid have been accepted without question. I was trying to confirm if you believed that an evaluator must have a relationship with AACRO to be valid. Your language had a slight inclination that you believed that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2017
  16. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Jan, Jan, Jan . . . I’m not sure why you’re attempting to drag me into this (as I have no interest in the issue), but as long as I’m here, would you like a little fromage avec votre whine?

    Whether you like it or not, I have an RA Ph.D. As much as you may occasionally attempt to trash it, it’s still an RA Ph.D. Steve has, I would imagine, crested the mountain on his RA Ph.D., and is well on his way toward the finish line.

    And you, mon amis? Nada.

    Moreover, Steve and I are not “compatriots,” as there are issues on which we would disagree (albeit cordially), although both of us are known persons on this board (as opposed to an anonymous, antagonistic troll). I find Steve’s attitude in this thread to be entirely diplomatic, and his response as to why he didn’t research an area of interest to you to be quite acceptable.

    So, as the French say, piss off. :naughty:
     
  17. Jan

    Jan Member

    novadar: "The NACES firms I have dealt with had no relationship with AACRO. They are 100% completely independent of AACRO. Their evaluations are perfectly valid have been accepted without question."

    Based on my "survey" with six Academic Evaluation Services, some of which were recommended by AACRO while others were NACES member, there was no consensus as to the recognition and credibility of NAB or IUGS. So it's my impression that if I was to speak with six or more such services, the same scenario would hold true, whereby some academic evaluation services would provide positive feedback while others would not. That is why I recommend that if one is licensed in a mental health profession. the primary basis for determining whether to attend and obtain a doctorate from a school such as IUGS and accredited by NAB, is by obtaining feedback from the state licensing board in the state in which they reside.

    Novadar: "I was trying to confirm if you believed that an evaluator must have a relationship with AACRO to be valid. Your language had a slight inclination that you believed that."

    Absolutely not! I think you are reading into my "language" that which does not exist!
     
  18. Jan

    Jan Member

    Steve Levicoff "Jan, Jan, Jan . . . I’m not sure why you’re attempting to drag me into this (as I have no interest in the issue), but as long as I’m here, would you like a little fromage avec votre whine?"

    Levicoff, Levicoff, Levicoff, Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

    Levicoff: "Whether you like it or not, I have an RA Ph.D. As much as you may occasionally attempt to trash it, it’s still an RA Ph.D."

    I realize that you are extremely defensive resulting in you constantly bolstering your fragile self by bragging about your Ph.D. However, quite frankly I wasn't even thinking about your doctorate, let alone attempting to trash it! So keep your eyes on the highway while driving your truck, with your "doctorate" dangling from your rear view window, so that you don't go flying off the road.

    "Steve has, I would imagine, crested the mountain on his RA Ph.D., and is well on his way toward the finish line."

    And your point is"? I never commented about anything regarding Foerster's doctoral program, pro or con. I think you better get off the highway and get some shuteye.

    "And you, mon amis? Nada."

    Of course not, just the credentials and professional training and expertise that you don't possess that enable me to not need to drive a tractor trailer. (LOL)

    "Moreover, Steve and I are not “compatriots,” as there are issues on which we would disagree (albeit cordially), although both of us are known persons on this board (as opposed to an anonymous, antagonistic troll)."

    Oh boy are you known on this board and the fact that you are a self anointed expert on educational matters. Please let us know the credentials/certifications and experiential training you hold that enable you to provide educational/career counseling and assessment and critical reviews of educational programs other than your "Name it and Frame it" book written in 2000BC (LMAO).

    Levicoff: "I find Steve’s attitude in this thread to be entirely diplomatic, and his response as to why he didn’t research an area of interest to you to be quite acceptable."

    Of course you do, that is why you just confirmed my assertion that you are compatriots!

    Levicoff: "So, as the French say, piss off."

    And as my Jewish friend says, GAI AVEK (go away)!
     
  19. novadar

    novadar Member

    Fair enough. I've done that before on here as well. My apologies.

    Thanks for posting your overall findings. You definitely when the extra mile by contacting state boards since this particular degree in question has that additional consideration.
     
  20. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member


    I think that's 'ton whine,' given the budding friendship. But I could be a ton wrong.
     

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