Huntington College of Health Sciences

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Jan, Dec 1, 2016.

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  1. Jan

    Jan Member

    Anyone aware of the credibility of this schools doctoral program in Integrative Health?
     
  2. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    They're nationally accredited by the DEAC, so the usual warnings about the utility of an NA degree apply.

    Other than that, I've never heard much about them, positive or negative.
     
  3. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Credibility? What credibility? :eek1:
     
  4. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I never studied with Huntington. I don't know anyone else who has, either.

    But when I was exploring programs for a friend who wanted a non-licensure qualifying nutrition program I looked it over. There were some flags.

    Let me lay out what I found and why it was concerning to me...

    First, we should compare it to an RA online program. Just for grins I picked the New York Chiropractic College in Seneca Falls, NY.

    NYCC

    Credits: 36
    Prerequisites: Candidates are required to have successfully completed 90 semester hours (or 136 quarter hours) of undergraduate study. At least Nine credit hours shall consist of the biosciences (C or better). Overall grade point average must be 2.5 or higher. (Source)

    Cost: $7,908 Per Year (For online programs they consider an academic year to be two trimester) 2 courses/6 Credits per trimester/4 Courses/12 Credits per Academic Year. So, three academic years = $23,724 + fees. Someone feel free to jump in if I did that math incorrectly.

    HCHS

    Credits: 37
    Prerequisites: Bachelor’s degree with a 2.0 GPA or higher from a college or university accredited by an accrediting agency recognized by the Secretary of the U.S. Department of Education or the Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA); or international equivalent.
    Completed coursework from a similarly accredited institution in Nutrition I, Human Biology, General Chemistry, Biochemistry, Anatomy and Physiology, and Statistics.

    Cost: $13,616 + Fees

    When I first saw this I looked and I said "Well, Neuhaus, those prices are actually fairly close. I guess it would depend upon whether a person wanted to shell out the extra $10k for RA/Programmatic accreditation." The HCHS program also has the benefit of offering a self-paced version of the Masters in addition to a semester based program. So, maybe that would work best.

    Then I re-read those prerequisites. For NYCC you need 9 credits of Bioscience. That's a pretty open requirement. It's not unreasonable that a person with any number of undergrad majors might have picked up two semesters of chemistry or biology plus maybe anatomy/physiology to meet that requirement.

    But HCHS requires 18 credits in prerequisite coursework. Double the amount. And they seem very specific.

    Nutrition I
    Human Biology
    General Chemistry
    Biochemistry
    Anatomy and Physiology
    Statistics

    You could use one of their handy certificates to meet the requirement for only $4k. How nice of them.

    I cannot speak to Huntington's motivation. However, to me it looks like they want to lure folks in with a low price ($13k) but then slap you with extra coursework to bring up the price. By having double the prerequisites of other nutrition programs and requiring coursework that very few undergrads would happen to have already they are basically guaranteeing that anyone who stumbles upon them will be on the hook for a diploma plus their Masters degree.

    Basically, they cleverly built an up-sell right into their admissions requirements.

    Their admissions requirements aren't completely absurd, mind you. Northeastern has an online Masters in Nutrition that has similar requirements. Of course, Northeastern offers you more than a really low price to get you in the door.

    I realize none of this has anything to do with their doctoral program. And I've seen a few of their grads floating around on LinkedIn. But it has two reputational issues working against it: It's NA and it's for-profit.

    The only advantage Huntington seems to have in this space is price. And that, to me, is misleadingly presented. Could you rock the world with a doctorate from there? Maybe. But honestly, it don't strike me as the sort of school that is going to force you to become a rockstar. If they have a rockstar alumnus/a then that individual would probably have been a rockstar without them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2019
  5. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I don't know either, and I don't want to sound like I'm defensing this school because I really don't know anything about them but anyone who was a Biology or Health Sciences major in their undergrad years could easily have all those prerequisits. Also, if you don't have some of them there's no requirement that you pick up those credits with Huntington. You could do it lots of places. Just sayin' . . .
     
  6. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    And I'm not saying they are dishonest. But the whole thing is a yellow flag to me. Having more prerequisites than other programs with better accreditation makes it look more like a money grab to me.

    But maybe it is a perfectly innocent thing and I'm reading too far into it.

    The problem with schools like Huntington is that anything they do will be clouded by the for-profit image. If a non-profit or public school overcharges you for something then, well, college is expensive. When a for-profit does it then people will say "See! Told ya they were all about profit!"

    So I don't know how much of it is a bias, even as someone who doesn't believe for-profit education is inherently bad, versus how much of it is justified.

    Though I'd say that the bias is probably a big consideration. If you want to make a career in integrative or alternative medicine then there are schools that have reputations in that space. Huntington isn't one of them. Add the for-profit and the DEAC accreditation and it might not be such a great deal.
     
  7. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Yeah, you might be right. I was just thinking that it funny that we often think of DEAC schools as being "easier" and yet here's one that actually seems to have higher standards.:dunno:
     
  8. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I've read things about them from students. You have to dig a bit online. What I've read wasn't particularly good.
     
  9. b4cz28

    b4cz28 Active Member

    This is so true. I have a two DEAC degrees (undergrad) and one RA degree (undergrad) and the DEAC degrees were way more strict, proctored exams and all. My Clovis CC degree was much easier to obtain than my Andrew Jackson University AS.
     
  10. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    It's quite clear that this is a legitimate school. Better question is: what is the utility of this degree? It does not seem to qualify one for a regulated profession, it is not "prestigious" enough to be impressive on its own. You can't normally use it to teach college. Where's the ROI?

    I guess this could be useful for a successful self-employed guy in nutrition or natural health business. Just need to remember that while it'll make one "Dr." it'll not make one a healthcare provider.
     
  11. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    This might be the kind of degree someone might get if they had a Masters in Counseling, were interested in Holistic stuff, and wanted phd for marketing, competition, etc
     
  12. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

  13. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    I'd challenge that.
    The presentation of admission criteria, as well all know here, can be negotiated, and doesn't really provide insight into the quality of the program. I even negotiated admission in to my MS Nutrition program - which at the time I applied - was only admitting Registered Dietitians. My program also had a biochemistry admissions requirement - I submitted my science transcript, which was thick, but didn't contain biochemistry (and 100% of my sciences were taken online fwiw) and no one said a word.

    What's the program like when you're enrolled? That's hard to say. It leads to a CCN, which is a joke certification, so I hope there is more to it.

    A lot of programs don't lead to RD, but sometimes that's because they are for RDs. It's like the Masters and Doctoral programs you're seeing now in the PA field - it's because there are so many that entered the field with a diploma or undergrad degree.

    In general, you have to think long and hard about the ROI on a nutrition degree for non-RDs. For *me* it fit in best with my profession as a culinary educator, it was food related and allowed me to rank up, but it would NEVER be considered legit among nutritionists and RDs because what "THEY" consider legit is the internship and passing the exam- without that, nothing else matters.
    The fact that this school has a "clinical nutrition" concentration is exceptionally slippery. In all but about 10 states you'll be breaking your state's law. The part that makes it bad is "clinical." The BIG distinction is clinical application. For example - it is ok for anyone (degreed or not) to share nutrition information with anyone. I can cook "healthy tacos" and teach you how to cook the recipe, and I can tell you why the tacos are healthy. I could also teach a "healthy lifestyle" class - talking about the benefits of diet and exercise. The difference, and what makes RDs healthcare providers, is that they are clinicians. They can say "Mr. Jones, you have type 2 diabetes. Here is a diet plan for you to follow." If you TREAT MEDICAL CONDITIONS (medical nutrition therapy) with diet, and you're practicing without a license, you're going to be in trouble. To treat a population, you can be anyone. To treat a person, you need a license.

    So frankly, that this degree is NA and has a concentration in clinical nutrition is so over the top ridiculous. Anyone looking for any kind of ROI would do so much better in Integrative Health WITHOUT the Clinical Nutrition attached to it- seriously. The concentration screams snake oil.

    I wanted to edit to add that I think nutrition is a field a lot like midwifery. There is a HUGE divide between lay midwives, licensed midwives, and nurse midwives. If they all stayed in their own lane, everyone could coexist happily. If nutrition had a lane, and clinical nutrition had a lane, the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics could make room for everyone. I don't see it happening anytime soon.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 4, 2016
  14. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Well I don't think there's any question that you know more about this topic that I do so I'm happy that you commented.
     
  15. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

  16. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    I don't think that's entirely fair anymore. Integrative Healthcare has gone from a dirty word to something every Medical Center, University, and Hospital system is scrambling to add to their offerings so one with a degree in this field would certainly find opportunities. If anything, at least Huntington stands as one of the few offering a full program in this subject, most other schools only have programs that are little more than overviews and the full programs that are out there are VERY expensive.

    One good thing I can say about Huntington is that the school has a focus on developing new supplements and has been involved in successfully bringing some to market. My criticism is that the teaching staff does all of the research and development and doesn't have anything to offer students who would want to participate or get into the fold of development themselves. I know of some RA programs out there that deal with the development of supplements and such and some are done by distance and have had success entering the marketplace so that's something Huntington might consider.

    The only real "issue" with a degree from here is that it's NA and depending on what you plan to do you with it you could run into some bugs down the road, specifically areas of the country that expressly state an RA requirement for any position that is Health/Medical related. I'd say at the moment, as Integrative Healthcare is taking hold in the Medical field, a Doctorate in Integrative Healthcare from a legitimately accredited school will give you some opportunities, but as time passes and more RA schools pick it up the NA version will slide down the employer choice list. I think Huntington already knew this which is why they switched from a Doctorate in Health Science to a Doctor of Science in Integrative Healthcare. Now that more RA schools are offering Doctorates in Health Science, they had to come to the realization that the NA version would make their graduates less competitive.
     
    Cody Thompson likes this.
  17. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    It's something how quickly things can change in just a few years. I was at my Doctor's office (an MD) a little while back and he was training a resident (DO) who was present in the patient room. We got into a discussion about how DO's went from being outcasts to being respected in the medical field. The MD talked about how interesting it is that DOs get the same education as MDs plus a number of other things MDs aren't taught but are now becoming a necessity.

    The discussion turned to Integrative Healthcare. The MD talked about how not long ago the word "Integrative Healthcare" or "Integrative Medicine" were considered evil terms in the medical profession, and now it's almost impossible to find a medical system that hasn't implemented or is in the process of implementing it. You see names like Duke, Harvard, and other major university and hospital systems offering either fellowships, certificates, and/or degrees in the subject. I started searching and there were too many certificates, fellowships, and continuing education programs offered by colleges to list here, but I was able to wade through a number to find some degree programs:

    Huntington University of Health Sciences - Doctor of Science in Integrative Healthcare
    https://www.huhs.edu

    Metropolitan State University Denver - Bachelors of Integrative Healthcare
    https://msudenver.edu/hep/integrativehealthcareprogram/

    National University - Master of Science in Complementary & Integrative Healthcare
    https://www.nu.edu/ourprograms/schoolofhealthandhumanservices/healthsciences/programs/masterofscienceincomplementaryintegrativehealthcare/

    Ohio University - Bachelor of Science in Integrated Healthcare Studies
    https://www.ohio.edu/chsp/health-studies/bachelor-integrated-healthcare-studies

    Drexel University - Master of Science in Complementary and Integrative Health
    https://drexel.edu/cnhp/academics/graduate/MS-Complementary-Integrative-Health/

    George Washington University - Master of Science in Integrative Medicine
    https://smhs.gwu.edu/integrative-medicine/integrative-medicine-programs/mshs

    Arizona State University - Bachelor of Science in Integrative Health
    https://asuonline.asu.edu/online-degree-programs/undergraduate/bachelor-science-integrative-health/

    University of the Highlands and Islands - Bachelor of Science in Integrative Healthcare
    https://www.uhi.ac.uk/en/courses/bsc-hons-integrative-healthcare/

    Massachusetts College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences - Doctor of Acupuncture and Integrative Health (DAIH)
    https://www.mcphs.edu/academics/school-of-acupuncture/acupuncture/acupuncture-integrative-health-daih

    The problem I see right now is that there are so many unaccredited schools offering similar programs (and I won't list those) that it has to be confusing to anyone wanting to get into this emerging field.
     
  18. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    Okay, so many health systems are promoting integrative health offerings.

    Not sure how well this follows. Where is an unlicensed layperson with an online credential in integrative health going to fit into a health system's integrative health budget, org chart, and division of responsibilities? Practitioners like physicians, nurses, registered dietitians, physical therapists, and social workers have some room to apply integrative health doctrines within patient care events billable to insurance. They're supported by paraprofessionals like clinical medical assistants and medical laboratory technologists who may not be licensed but usually come through established training pathways.

    There are roles in administration, research, education, and public health, but I'm skeptical that an accredited online DSc in Integrative Healthcare will be a strong hiring credential against others.

    There are companies that supply to integrative healthcare, with jobs like being a pharma rep but for a maker of supplements or essential oils, and there's the consumer wellness space with jobs like working at a health food store or fitness studio. Gotta wonder how many opportunities in these areas are well matched to a professional doctorate.
     
  19. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    As far as I know, degrees in these integrative majors are meant to boost your current role in the same way a Doctor of Health Science does. In states that allow it, some are meant to prepare a person to run a CAM practice which the HUHS program focuses a lot on. I can see situations where if you were, say, a Trainer or Medical Exercise Specialist and you wanted to boost your professional standing, you might go in this direction, or you if you were an RN who wanted to get connected with these IH roles that command higher-than-normal salaries this might be a way to stand out. You have a point, I think people with already established credentials like Nurses and Doctors will benefit more efficiently. I noticed through searching profiles online that many of Huntington's students were either MDs or RNs or went on to pursue an MD or RN after studying there so there is something to that.
     
  20. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    It can be, but the Dsc is different from the DHsc. The Doctor of Science is a degree focused on research, scientific knowledge, and a dissertation to be defended. The DHsc is generally none of those things: with the exception of The University of Bridgeport and some UK versions, the Doctor of Health Science is really just a business administration degree with a healthcare theme.

    A properly arranged program would prepare a Doctor of Science to not just simply run a CAM practice from a business standpoint, but also act as a practitioner. The only matter there would be state laws that would govern what could and couldn't be done, but Naturopaths, for example, have found ways around the laws in states where they can't be licensed where they are able to provide very specific services that don't cross the line of what would be a prohibited naturopathic practice, so that model is adaptable. Failing that, you would be qualified to hire licensed practitioners, manage them, and advise them on specific procedures if need be.
     

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