Academic Double Standards

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Kizmet, Sep 30, 2016.

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  1. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

  2. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I don't see how it is a double standard for teachers to not be subjected to the same level of "surveillance" as their students.

    I make my kids eat broccoli and avoid candy even though I, when not in front of them, might make the opposite choice. My duty is to instill in my kids good habits at a time when they don't actually know what is best for them. When they become adults then they can make informed decisions. They can stay up all night and be groggy for work in the morning or eat candy for breakfast and rot their teeth. The time for formation has ended and they choose how to execute the script of life.

    High school teaches kids about conformity. You follow the rules. Then you get to college and you are mystically transformed into a full adult and you have the expectations that professors are to treat you as equals and you should have a say in the governance of the institution you pay to attend.

    Students and professors aren't "learning partners" or "peers of differing generations." They exist in a hierarchy. And when you try to explain that the hierarchy is really just a flat circle of equals then the students end up being in for an incredibly rude awakening when they arrive in the job market.
     
  3. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

    Traditional ideals of social justice?
     
  4. Lagu88

    Lagu88 Member

    Hmm... some times we take in information, but hopefully not blindly. We need to do our own analysis and intepretation, or see things from many directions and understand the situations the person is in, I supposed. I have heard of educators who are not given enough time or not paid to create course materials. There are also some educators being forced to teach subjects not their specializations, maybe because they request lower pay.

    There are actually course content developer out there ready to be hired. To specialize in this field, not only do you need to understand the qualification framework, plagiarism and IP, but also the psychological aspects to communicate the message clearly. It is quite a high paid positions.

    BUT I do believed that plagiarism is not right.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 1, 2016
  5. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Plagiarism is wrong.

    But learning of plagiarism is like learning anything else. You start out with very strict rules and very tough enforcement to instill in you the seriousness of it all. As time and expertise develops you are expected to have those rules down. For an undergrad the consequence of plagiarism could be fairly light, fail the class. For a professor plagiarism can be career ending. So the scale of consequences shifts over time. You go from more handholding to less handholding throughout your career.

    The idea that an 18 year old with no academic experience should receive the same treatment as a tenured professor is ridiculous. It wrongly implies that they are on the same level. If they are then college is a waste. The reason people pay to place their snowflakes in a room with a professor is that they are hoping that person with the PhD and research experience in that field will impart some of their knowledge to their snowflake who knows jack about jack.

    Accepting your ignorance and walking into a classroom takes a certain measure of maturity. The ability to basically sit back and say "OK, I'm here to learn, let's do this" instead of sitting there like a little smartass picking apart a professor's words to show how you really know more than them is a life skill that can serve you well. But it isn't a life skill that is especially popular these days.

    We don't encourage being a good student. We encourage students to challenge everything and become little social justice warriors. Then they get into the workplace and get fired because they tried their shared governance BS in a corporate setting.
     
  6. Life Long Learning

    Life Long Learning Active Member

    Little intellectual freedom for students at the University of Oregon.
     
  7. Lagu88

    Lagu88 Member

    That's correct. I have friends working as adjunct lecturer at private schools, who you know, are not paid to create course materials and are asked to develop lecturer materials in a very short time, say one day with other full time work commitment. He rejected without use, and is even allocated to teach subjects that are not his specialty, such as interior design, just because he accept lower pay. Even the students lab materials arduino kit sets, the manager purchased low quality and cheap stuffs from ebay alike, and charged the students at least twice the amount. While plagiarism is wrong, abusing employees and forcing people to commit crimes like plagiarism is even worst, in my honest opinion. Even the way the instructors mark their exams, all the papers and the way the students answered are completely similar in some way. That poor friend of mine tried to compensate the student with stuffs like reference letters (they don't know this either), further accreditated studies information, and more content in the subjects and etc. He left as soon as he has better opportunity. Actually, in order to be fast, he just paraphrased course materials from google that has no copyrighted notice and add in his own stuffs, but have not distributed it and tried added some citations. So it is in the gray area, I guess.

    For the above, I am not siding that plagiarism is correct. Well, I am emphasizing on different ways of viewing a topic to spark some deeper thinking, instead of just receiving information and take it as it is. Taking information as it is, is indeed very prone to stuffs like propaganda and psychological warfare. I do realize nowadays movies are going this direction, such as side effects. Even batman is very different then the past.

    For students, how can they commit plagiarism and lied the way they represented papers contributors? If you present something that you have not really done and faked on your university application, isn't it similar to using faked degrees to apply for jobs or further studies. That is all mill and cheating.

    You are also right about smartass part. This is why, sometimes, even if I have already read a subject, I still act normal and go into a professional class or lessons. I believed many MBA candidates also do the same thing, despite having years of management experiences. We go in and discuss a topic, or go in to patch up something we have amissed. We call it seminar, by the way.

    I also have another friends who totally know nonthing about this. Despite the supervisor is a PhD graduate during our grad internship, he said the supervisor did not know anything from the research paper. We changed supervisors three times, somehow but I have no idea why, and of all supervisors, he gives negative comments. Even the supervisor from his own country he also made negative comments.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2016

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