According to UMI.com: "The first American Ph.D. program was initiated at Yale University in 1860, with requirements that included at least one year of study on campus, an examination, and a dissertation based on original research. The first recipient was James Morris Whiton, whose dissertation in Latin on the proverb "Brevis vita, ars longa" was accepted in 1861. Handwritten, it was six pages long." http://www.umi.com/hp/Support/DServices/shortcut/lore.htm Makes one stop a moment and rethink the concept of degree mill, etc. Are we being a bit too paranoid these days with GAAP, Accredited/Non-Accredited (Nationa/Regional), Approved/Not Approved, Authorized/Not Authorized, etc. I find the quote interesting. Would anyone have a problem calling this late gentleman a doctor? Does anyone doubt his credential, or the credibility of his granting-institution? Kenneth K. A.
Good point. Here is something else to think about along the same lines. Adam Smith is considered the father of modern economics (1776 Wealth of Nations) and was a Dr of moral philosophy not a Dr of Economics but many of his theories still hold to this day. And if the First PhD of economics did not come around until around or after 1802 how was is ever awarded because there were no PhDs to teach the courses, create the curriculum, or to award it? So in lines with what Kenneth was saying...it takes a little risk on the part of the student and innovation on the part of the institution for a degree to even come about. DTK
Ok IMHO, a degree mill sells degrees without any coursework/exams being done to earn it. Here is another question, could Oxford and Cambridge be viewed as "Degree Mills" for how they issue their MA degrees? I know this has been dealt with before, but I thought it would be good to rehash it on this thread.
Re: Re: Is Yale a Degree Mill? Yes and obviously he did such a great job on his dissertation that he finally cleared up the confusion on the proverb "Brevis vita, ars longa" once and for all!
Re: Re: Re: Is Yale a Degree Mill? All that really matters is that he wrote it in Latin. Translated into English, with full flair, the thing probably made the required 11 pages.
Yeah, I absolutely agree!!?!! I think you should avoid Yale University at all costs. (cough, cough, gag, laugh, cough) Jack
Hahahahaha! No way, I wouldn't be caught dead at Yale! HAHAAHA. Seriously though, I am glad that there are some out here who can put things into perspective. It is good to presume good intentions first, and then, the burden is on the critic to produce evidence that a school or degree program is not up to par as it were. As someone noted earlier, the Oxford award of the master's degree is questionable at some level. Convention makes something accredited in the end. I am completely against "degree mills"--those "institutions" (read: businesses) that take money to give an (a worthless) award. But, those who care about DL and its growth should try to be a bit more positive about some DL institutions who are legitimate in their own right. After all, I would like to suggest that the Standard (whatever that is--however, ethereal in anyone's mind) is not some point on some imaginary or physical scale, rather perhaps a range--where it begins with an institution like, say, CCU and end with Harvard, and where the majority of academic insititutions are somewhere in the middle. What say you to this? Kenneth K. A.
Re: Hahahahaha! While it should be a range, including CCU is rather scraping the bucket. Classes with non-proctored, open book, multiple choice questions even at the graduate level comes no where close to meeting minimum standards.
Re: Re: Hahahahaha! As Ken suggested, it is a full spectrum of schools from Yale at the top (amongst others of course) to ULC at the bottom (amongst others). Where in that range someone draws the line and declares that everything below that line is a degree mill, is rather subjective. You may reasonably argue that CCU is scraping the bucket. However, there are many much worse than CCU. For example, K-W has proctored tests with time limits but I would consider K-W far worse than CCU. K-W fits many more degree mill attributes than CCU. The K-W degree is a much bigger joke than CCU.
Like Bill, I am inclined to believe that K-W is probably less legitimate than CCU. But, that is another thread. However, I am incleasingly of the belief that GAAP/Accreditation (in its American or other parts of the world equivalent) should mean a range, where one end of the spectrum is completely lousy and degree-millish (allow me the point), and the other end is marked by excellence. But, if you allow me the analogy from statistics, the average set (in this case the totality of legitimate schools, whether accredited in some form, or approved or authorized, etc.) are distributed in such a fashion like a bell curve that the majority of them are located in the middle, where as the minorty of excellence and of "awfulness" is locatable at the edges. Yet, the most awful school and the most excellent school are in deed part of the same range, whereas those "schools" that are not schools in essence--can't be defined as schools. Anyway, having said my piece, I seem to favour the idea of the approved schools in CA and their like elsewhere in the US or the world to be some place in the lower end of the distribution, but still part of the range. Having considered this, where do you suppose I am wrong? Kenneth K. A.
Kenneth I appreciate your approach if not your point. I can see all offered degrees as part of a range or I can see minimally acceptable degrees as part of a range. CCU fits in the first but not the second. Yes K-W may be lower but they are closer to each other than to say the CSU schools. I am not saying that a CA approved school or an unaccredited school can't be legitimate. It is clear they can in extremely rare instances. It is just interesting to watch people do intellectual somersaults to try to prove unacceptable (degree mill like) schools are acceptable. I apologize for my curmudgeoness (sp?).
James Morris Whiton Why did the guy have to have Morris as one of his names? Actually, the reason the six page dissertation was accepted is because it was written in Latin--but the dissertation committee could only read English. By the time they translated it they thought it was 600 pages.
How about Harvard and Princeton? Anyone knows when Harvard and Princeton began awarding doctoral degrees? Were they similar in their requirements of students along with Yale? Kenneth K. A.
