Malcolm Gladwell and Higher Education

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Kizmet, Jul 25, 2016.

Loading...
  1. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I don't like this at all, but I'm glad it's been said. From the article:

    "Over the past five years, public universities sucked more than $10.3 billion in mandatory student fees and other subsidies to go to their sports programs ... This, despite the fact that only 24 of 230 big-time athletics programs are profitable."

    I'm not sure if the info comes direct from Gladwell or from Tyler Kingkade, who wrote the article. Either way, it shouldn't be allowed to happen.

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2016
  3. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    The thing that irritates me about athletic fees is that many universities, and their apologists, boast about how much their athletics programs brings into the school. The programs, indeed, generate quite a bit of gross revenue. But that money goes right back into athletics while simultaneously sucking fees from every other student.

    It would be like if I bragged about how much money I'm making while simultaneously having my parents pay my mortgage.
     
  4. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I am very much into athletics and think that college athletics are fantastic. At the same time I think that there's an overemphasis on "BIG TIME" athletics. I think that having college team sports is great but it would be better to have a wider range of athletic activities that encouraged participation by a wider range of students, not just elite jocks. The emphasis should be on participation in fitness activities rather than securing TV contracts and Bowl appearances.
     
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    And after college, if/when they turn pro? As of October 2014, the average salary for a CFL player was $89,285 per season. Contrast this with the NFL - average $1.9 million. Over 21 times as much. :shock:

    J.
     
  7. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    I haven't read the link yet, I will in a moment, but I have to say I have been a HUGE Malcolm Gladwell fan for years. He is exceptionally clever and a fantastic lay-social scientist. I think Outliers changed my life.

    For those who are interested- there are active links to the last 2 actual podcasts that sparked the article. Listening now....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2016
  8. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    Ok- wow. I think I have to revisit my position on higher education access. I didn't realize that colleges didn't pay taxes on their endowments. My gut reaction is that college isn't a right, it's a privilege, which hasn't changed- but it makes me reconsider what might be a college's duty to society. Anyway, who listened to the Food Fight podcast!? I loved it. I'm hooked.
     
  9. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    American college football is pretty much the NFL developmental league, while the CFL is sort of like the minor leagues for the NFL; Minor League Baseball players & coaches aren't paid much either, with good reason.
     
  10. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    No taxes on endowments. No property taxes on their land. Not a big deal for the itty bitty community college. But some universities own much more land that you'd imagine. When hiking in Ithaca I became aware, years after first wandering the gorges, that many of the beautiful outdoor spaces in that area are, in fact, owned by Cornell. The flip side is that they pay to maintain those spaces and pay campus police to patrol them. So one could reasonably argue that Cornell is giving back quite a bit. Others argue that they should pay the taxes and let elected officials decide how to allocate those funds.
     
  11. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    In some places this is a bigger issue than others (as you indicated). In Boston it's a big issue because there are so many colleges in and around the city that huge tracks of land are taken up as non-revenue generating properties for the city.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/07/08/why-should-rich-universities-get-huge-property-tax-exemptions/
     
  12. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    I've not liked a lot of things Gladwell has said but I agree with this one. College's are getting absolutely ridiculous. We're all at fault here.

    When it comes to athletics in colleges, a friend of mine with three daughters states; "The better the college football program, the less likely I am in sending my girls to school there".
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2016
  13. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    On a smaller scale, Wilkes-Barre Pennsylvania has two colleges in the city limits; Wilkes University and Kings College.

    For years they remained, more or less, confined to relatively small footprints. They were surrounded by some of the most dilapidated cityscape you can imagine. The city center is a traffic circle/commercial district called Public Square. For years it was an ugly husk. You didn't go to Public Square unless you were looking for drugs. Aside from the Boscov's Department Store, a bank and a smattering of small storefronts, all separated by long vacant storefronts, there was not much to do there. Just before I left for the Navy, Public Square had the shame of losing a McDonalds. There was one on the square. It went out of business. It didn't move to a better location. It shut down because it wasn't sustainable. That's the level of suck we're dealing with.

    Then Kings and Wilkes began buying derelict properties near their campuses. Kings bought an entire city block that had been commercial buildings which had been vacant for well over 20 years. They demolished the whole block and built pristine student housing. Wilkes, meanwhile, began buying up the former mansions in South Wilkes-Barre and restoring them using them for classrooms, housing and administrative offices.

    Then the two schools closed their bookstores. On Public Square, situated in the center of the city equidistant to both schools, a Barnes and Noble opened with a college bookstore serving both schools. Walk in there and they sell both Wilkes and Kings swag as well as the obligatory Starbucks.

    Then bars aimed at college age students began popping up. Then restaurants aimed at them and young professionals. Then kitschy little art shops. Then developers bought the dilapidated old commercial and industrial buildings and converted them into luxury lofts. Who would buy a $100k loft in a town where you can buy a detached house for $60k? I don't know. But they sold out quickly and they built up a waiting list for new units.

    Right around the time I was leaving Wilkes-Barre just started to not suck. Maybe they were just waiting for both myself and Levicoff to clear out of there before they started improving things.

    And yet, people moan about the lost property taxes on those derelict buildings. So the flip side is that the schools can spur development and bring in way more than is lost in the property taxes that they don't pay.

    Or they can eat up city revenue and push low income individuals to the outskirts of town.

    I don't think there is a simple solution (i.e. just tax the endowments).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2016
  14. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I had a friend (acquaintance), a serious academic snob, come to my house and tell me the importance of hiring a college consultant early on. Like, around grade school, to make sure my kids were on the proper path to get into an elite school. Then she laughed at how she once floated the idea of going to Colorado State and her parents threatened to disown her before letting her throw her life away at CSU.

    After I threw up in my mouth a little I began thinking about the college selection process. So much of it is marketing. So many schools cannot actually offer you much at all. These are the schools that act like their name matters when it really doesn't. Muhlenberg College is one that comes to mind. It's a good school. It doesn't have a bad name. But it isn't immediately recognizable to many people. For a lot of career fields you'd get more mileage out of a Penn State degree for a fraction of the cost.

    Maybe if I beat this level of analysis into their heads at an early age they won't be taken in by a slick admissions representative with the glossiest brochures in the gym that day. Or maybe it's all just wishful thinking on my part. But my parents didn't cosign my student loans and my wife and I have no intentions of cosigning our kids'. So they might just have to figure it out the hard way.
     

Share This Page