Research vs Time-in-class Degree

Hi everyone,

In the threads I have read I see questions arising over what a transcript might say, or might not say, for a foreign seminary / university where the degree is thesis / dissertation only. Wouldn't a transcript be immaterial for a research degree as the quality of the thesis / dissertation would be weighed in lieu of class time? I have also noted that UK, South African and European seminaries / universities have longer thesis / dissertation requirements as opposed to US class based degree programs.

After that preamble my question is an opinion on degree methodology (class or research) and your thoughts on the strengths and / or weaknesses of each?

Stephen Sheasby
Dip. Theo, MSc Christian Ministry

 

Several Reflections

European and European patterned (I assume perhaps you might mean UK-patterned) thesis-only seminary degrees are typically awarded in the generalist field of "Theology" and "transcripts" typically only state the title of the dissertation; the broad field of study (Theology), and perhaps the dissertation committee who approved the thesis at the viva-voce defense. This would not constitute a "transcript," but you can request an evaluation of your qualifications from WES or a related agency to establish equivalency to U.S. degrees (or possibly UK NARIC in your case).

The traditional first-degree for pastors in the UK is the Bachelor of Theology. Devoid of general education requirements, this degree focuses on broad theology and is quite rigorous preparation for vocational ministry or further study. After this, one can earn the taught master's (typically 1 additional year), and then an MPHIL by thesis only, or a PhD by thesis only.

In the U.S. system, one obtains a generalist bachelor degree followed by three years of postgraduate theological study at a seminary leading to the award of the MDIV. The MDIV is similar in level and breadth to the UK Bachelor of Theology. After the MDIV, one can take the THM (typically an additional 1 year of coursework), or proceed directly to the PhD, with more coursework (perhaps 40-50 credit-hours) and a dissertation.

Proximally and for the most part, then, the terminal theological degree in both national contexts requires a three-year specialist theological study followed by a substantial dissertation. In my opinion, the UK system is better for individuals who know their precise specialism upon matriculation to postgraduate study, since a student is often required to produce a tentative plan of study at this time. The study is focused very precisely under the tutelage of a senior adviser. The USA system allows a longer time to obtain an understanding of the desired area of specialization before committing to a decision.

The South African system is similar to the British, with students taking an initial Bachelor of Theology, followed by a year of coursework in an Honours degree, followed by a research specialist master's (MA) for one year and a PhD for an additional 2 years.

In my opinion, students from all 3 systems end in roughly the same place. However, denominational affiliations predominate more readily than national affiliations - the selection of a seminary should be considered in coordination with denominational ordination and progression requirements rather than the particular country of the degree.

 

In the UK, research degrees--the PhD, which is thesis-only--isn't typically transcripted. Makes sense; what's to transcript?

There are no material weaknesses in a taught degree vs. a research-only degree. The thesis--and the research you do to complete it--is the key.

At the University of Leicester, the PhD was expected to take 3 years (full time) or 6 years (part time). It is a research degree. The DSocSci (which I did) is a "taught" degree, expected to take from 4.5 to 7 years. The degree is verified by the university registrar, but transcripted by the School of Management. (While bachelor's and master's degrees are transcripted by the Registrar, the doctorate--sometimes transcripted and sometimes not--is left to the department.)

As for thesis length, yes, the thesis-only approach (the PhD vs. "taught" doctorates in the UK) results in a longer thesis. The PhD was an 80,000-word thesis while the DSocSci was a 50,000-word thesis. Note that these are maximums, not minimums. But it was damn hard to keep within the maximum. Also note that theses were examined by people who didn't necessarily understand the distinctions between the shorter thesis resulting from a taught degree and the longer thesis from the PhD. As a result, we had to do comparable research that being done by PhD students, yet didn't have the space they enjoyed in presenting our findings.

 

I can't speak from personal experience but my sense of the US doctoral degree process is that it starts out nicely for most students. They are taking courses. This is something that they've already proven that they're good at doing. Read the book, sit in class, take notes on everything, write essays, take exams. It's all stuff that's very familiar, practiced and to some degree formulaic. Some might get shocked by the comps because I've heard that in some places these exams are formidable. But then it happens. The dissertation. Very different. A whole new set of skills come into play. A lot of people struggle. Some just don't make it through the process. I've imagined that the UK/ZA experience is similar minus the coursework. The process of doing the original research is very different than sitting in a classroom and absorbing/analyzing information.

 

I have experience with both doing it and teaching it. You have it exactly right. It is exacerbated by the fact that so many working students do professionally related master's degrees that, in almost all cases, do not have a thesis requirement. Traditional students in scholarly tracks often do thesis research at the master's level and, thus, aren't quite as stunned by the doctoral dissertation process. But the phenomenon exists there, too, spawning a not-insignificant dissertation prep industry (books, prep courses, coaching, editing, research assistance, websites, and more).

We see it on this website, too, comments from posters that display a naivete regarding the severe challenges of completing a doctoral dissertation.

 

agreed

For me, the best way to characterize it is that the PhD requires a very high degree of autonomy. Students who are willing to forge their path, do things without handholding, and accept results do best. Students who can't formulate original thoughts, aren't willing to stubbornly push through, etc. will not make it.

I completed a PhD in higher education administration at a regional comprehensive in the US, and just sent out a thesis for external review for a PhD in accounting at a South African institution. I believe the South African standards, so far, may be higher. In the United States, it's possible to fleece one's committee. They like you, you work hard, they want you to succeed. Yeah, you get the occasional stick in the mud, but for the most part they care and want you to make it. Overseas, it's out there, blind, and it could get rejected over the objections of your supervisor.

The keys to completed a PhD are: 1) a topic you really care about, 2) a supportive supervisor who wants you to do well, and 3) stubbornness, grit, perserverance.

I know MANY people who aren't 1600 SAT scorers who persevere to PhD's.

Me, personally, I think many of the taught degrees include unnecessary fat. Some foundation is helpful, but it's a research degree. I really don't need 90 hours to conduct competent academic research. I wanted an accounting PhD in the US but most institutions here wanted me to be residential, complete a bunch of coursework I already had, etc. Wasn't going to do that. The foreign degrees are evidence-oriented. You either produce research, or don't, and I like that. It's also a heckuva lot cheaper without an extra 30-40 hours of fluff heaped on at $600 a credit hour.

 

I don't have experience doing a doctorate in South Africa, but I did do one in the U.S. and another in the U.K.--at a school that ranks considerably higher than all but one of the South African universities. And I cannot say with any assurance that one dissertation/thesis process was more rigorous than the other.

 

Not arguing about rankings. That's a circular conversation and a black hole. I'm talking about blind external review. We don't do that here. That's a big difference.