And so it begins, wonder which other ones are next..?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by dlady, Jun 16, 2016.

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  1. dlady

    dlady Active Member

  2. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    [​IMG]

    ACICS = zombie accreditor
     
  3. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    To many accreditors. Thus standards get reduce because of oversupply. New Institutions behave in accreditation shopping - The lowest acceptable standard for the least amount of money. A race to the bottom. There should be 1 National, accountable to taxpayer standard.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 16, 2016
  4. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I don't think they'll get the death penalty. They'll fire some people, re-organize, drop some schools, and implement some new procedures, all under the watch of the Department of Education. I don't think they'll strand almost a million students.
     
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Really? Take out Faith-based accreditors (religious schools) and a couple of accreditors that go no higher than occupational associate degrees (ACCET and ACCSC). These are all the US National Accreditors left on USDoE or CHEA lists:

    ACICS
    DEAC

    (USDoE also lists NYBOR - New York State Board of Regents, but that body only accredits schools in New York State, not across the nation, AFAIK.)

    So -- ACICS, DEAC. If they take one away (and it's a fair-sized "if") - one left. Hardly too many.... :smile:

    J.

    PS I'm puzzled about what's meant by "who's next." Does that mean ACCET or ACCSC with their vocational associate degrees? Surely not NYBOR! Surely not the religious accreditors! No...can't be.... :shock:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2016
  6. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Where are you getting that ACCSC doesn't accredit above the associates level?
     
  7. Gabe F.

    Gabe F. Active Member

    Not gonna happen... unless, of course, they also threaten to do the same with HLC (although a USDOE Inspector General once thought that HLC should have their accreditation revoked). It is no coincidence that nearly EVERY. MAJOR. FOR-PROFIT. SCHOOL. is located in HLC territory: Phoenix, DeVry, Ashford, CTU/AIU, APU/AMU (APUS), GCU, Northcentral, and on it goes.
     
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Sorry - my mistake. USDoE page clearly states they go up to Master's. I obviously clicked on ACCET twice, by accident. Apologies all round.

    So - right now, choice of 3 National accreditors for non-religious schools offering Bachelor's and above. Do I hear 2?

    USDoE page is here: View Agencies

    J.
     
  9. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Ashford is now accredited by WASC and was already established in HLC territory as a non-profit school before it was bought. APUS moved out of SACS territory because they wouldn't accredit a 100% virtual school. But, it is "strange" how most of the major for-profits located themselves in HLC territory.
     
  10. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I forgot that GCU was also a non-profit already located in HLC territory. I wonder if it was easier to buy schools in this region.
     
  11. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    From wekipedia
    Ten listed accrediting bodies are recognized by the U.S. Department of Education. These are:

    Distance Education Accrediting Commission (DEAC)
    Accrediting Council for Independent Colleges and Schools (ACICS)
    Accrediting Commission of Career Schools and Colleges (ACCSC)
    Accrediting Council for Continuing Education and Training (ACCET)
    Council on Occupational Education (COE)
    Association for Biblical Higher Education, Commission on Accreditation
    Association of Advanced Rabbinical and Talmudic Schools, Accreditation Commission
    Association of Institutions of Jewish Studies
    New York State Board of Regents, and the Commissioner of Education
    Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools, Accreditation Commission
     
  12. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I get where you're going, and I wish such a thing could work, but I have some reservations. Lack of competition breeds complacency and some would argue that we already have to deal with enough of that with the current system. The other thing is that some accreditors do a better job accrediting some programs than they do others, so it would take a heck of an effort to consolidate that all into a single system.
     
  13. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Accreditors are driven by their member institutions. This worked against for-profits in the past. Back when RAs refused to accredit for-profit schools this was a massive barrier to entry. HLC has a fairly high concentration of for-profit schools including some of the biggest and most successful ones. The result is a regulatory environment which is friendlier to acquiring schools.

    HLC has had its own fair share of threats. And we're at a place where, I believe, all of the regional accreditors now accredit at least a few for-profit schools.

    To me it's a bit like how every startup wannabe incorporates in Delaware. Delaware has historically offered many corporate protections to its companies. But times have also changed. Many of those protections are available in states like Nevada and Wyoming now. But Delaware is still considered the gold standard by many just because it has a longer history and with it, a long list of precedents.

    All of this is only my opinion, of course.
     
  14. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Take out 4 religious accreditors - that leaves 6
    Take out two (ACCET and COE) that go to the vocational associate degree level only - that's 4
    Take out one that's NY state only - that's 3 left, that accredit nationally, to bachelor's and beyond - in secular schools.

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2016
  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Likely so. Over the years, Nevada and Wyoming have closed a few of their loopholes. Back a few years ago, I was reading the sites of some um...coaches in self-aggrandizement, I guess; some call it "counselling to commit fraud." One such "expert" advised owning a university as better than buying a degree from a known mill. Form a prestigious-sounding Wyoming corporation with "University" in the name. Have your "university" award you whatever degrees you desire.

    Fortunately, Wyoming reacted. It is no longer possible to use the word "university" in a corporate name in that State unless it's a real school. Plus, around 2006, IIRC, Wyoming adopted an "accredit or die" law that caused schools that couldn't, or wouldn't become accredited, to close or leave the State.

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2016
  16. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

  17. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

  18. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

  19. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I have always been of the opinion that a made up school with a real sounding name is "safer" than a known mill if one were inclined to not just receive legitimate credentials, of course.

    Incorporation provides very little by way of utility if your intention is merely to award yourself a degree. If anything it gives you too many tools to misuse. Schools don't send out degree verifications affixed with a corporate seal. Mill operators do that frequently. Legitimate schools don't plaster poorly scanned images of incorporation documents on their websites (though some legitimate schools do post their charter in states that award charters). Mills do that frequently.

    If I start the University of East Syracuse with the sole function of awarding me a degree then that degree is awarded without authority. It is equally as legitimate (or illegitimate, depending upon your view) regardless of whether I incorporate it or maintain it as an unincorporated entity.
     
  20. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    It makes me wonder what the minimum standards might be in order to be considered (legally) to be an "entity." If you incorporate there has to be a Board of Directors, staff, etc. doesn't there? There has to be board meetings with minutes of those meetings, there has to be a business plan or mission statement or somesuch. Does an entity have to show that they are actually doing business in some way? Some sort of activity related to their mission? They have to file taxes, etc. What is the minimum? Probably depends on the state of incorporation?
     

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