215,509 Axact names: what can be done with them

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by John Bear, Jun 8, 2016.

Loading...
  1. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    My former-FBI co-author, who has been very active in matters related to the huge Pakistani-based degree mill fraud, Axact, has been given the master list of 215,509 customer names, with accompanying data on them. He is quite overwhelmed, and wonders what could best be done with this. I gather the FBI has no interest.
     
  2. Michigan68

    Michigan68 Active Member

    My opinion . . . . Does it really matter if the information is available? Its only 0.000027% of the worlds population. How many of them are from the USA? Do we really care if they aren't? If people are 'outed', they will just claim the degree purchase was a mistake, or they didn't know it was fake. . . .etc.


    Michael
     
  3. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Snowden? Assange? He could do nothing at all. He can't be the only one with the list so it will likely come out eventually regardless of what he does. He could create a website and simply post the data. The question of "what is best" depends on values. I could make a case for publishing the data and just let the chips fall.
     
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Perhaps he could offer it to HR managers everywhere, particularly in the Middle East, where it's said there are many Axact "graduates." HR people could check their current staff and future applicants. If you could sell 10K copies, at a nominal $100 apiece, there's a million bucks... Perhaps Mossack-Fonseca could create an anonymous overseas entity to receive the payments. :smile:

    I can think of a couple of more lucrative uses, but they're not legal... like offering name removal-for-a-fee, prior to publication. At $1,000 apiece, a 10% response could net $21 million.

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2016
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    John Bear: I gather the FBI has no interest.

    Johann: Maybe they should. There has been some talk of Axact links to US-domiciled "schools" in the media. Some individual "grads" have reportedly paid up to $200K. If the Axact list reveals "grads" of US-domiciled operations - wouldn't the FBI want to talk to the operators and find out what happened? :shock:

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2016
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    At those reported astronomical rates, ($200K) perhaps the IRS would like to know about monies received by any US-domiciled enterprises said to be linked to Axact. Maybe the IRS would find it appropriate to send some well-armed agents to investigate. Here's a Forbes article headed "The Gun-Toting IRS." Forbes Welcome

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2016
  7. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I would revel in the irony of a U.S. federal agent sending such a list to Wikileaks. But since that's unlikely, he could consider leaking it to the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists, who are currently known for being the organization that catalogued and released the Panama Papers.
     
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I would consult an attorney before releasing any of that information. Even though the information is true, that might not be a defense for publicizing it. Privacy issues and all that. Perhaps it would be fine, but I'd get a legal opinion first.

    Then there's the desired outcome: what is it? What is hoped to be gained by releasing the information? I can't see anything that would come out of it. HR managers won't care--they don't know any of these people. If you go to their employers or customers, you might face accusations of tortious interference. Unless there are some juicy names on the list--highly doubtful--no one will care two minutes later.
     
  9. Davewill

    Davewill Member

    What's the point of publishing it? If someone tries to use their fake degree, anyone who would care would see the name Axact and take whatever action deemed necessary. If they aren't using their fake degree, then they aren't doing anything wrong and don't deserve to be outed.
     
  10. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Clear it with an attorney, publish the data, and whatever happens, happens. Who knows how many people got screwed out of jobs and/or promotions because they lost out to someone with a fraudulent credential? That shouldn't happen without consequences.

    As one of my drill sergeants used to love to say, "The lessons you learn the hardest, are the ones you remember the best".
     
  11. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    There were many, many "school" names. Knowing the name "Axact" wouldn't really help.
     
  12. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    As in other situations, we here at DI know far more about these kind of things than the average person, even more than the average HR person. The idea that the general public is aware of a degree mill scandal in Pakistan is pretty far-fetched. Hearing the name "Axact" is likely to mean exactly nothing to most people.
     
  13. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Why would HR need the list?

    Also we barely pay for salary surveys, which we need for benchmarking, I cannot see what the motivation would be for any HR department to pay for a list like this.

    I've noticed that most peoples' response to a school they don't know falls into one of two buckets:

    1. "Oh, I never heard of that school. Let me google it."
    2. "Has a degree, moving on."

    If you fall into the first camp then you tend to catch a lot of the diploma mills right off the bat. After a few you start to get good at it and you begin spotting BS (not a bachelor of science) pretty easily and quickly.

    If you fall into the latter then you don't care.

    The idea that any HR Manager would want to check all of their employees against a list like this seems remote to me. The people disclosed those degrees when they were hired. They likely feature them on their LinkedIn profiles. They aren't hiding. It would probably be faster to check every employee's degree against the list of known Axact Schools then to check every employee against the list of known Axact customers. In fact, hold on a sec...

    I just ran a query of employees filtering out everyone with degrees from Syracuse University, Binghamton University, Cornell, Clemson, any of the SUNY or CUNY schools or any other well-known (or at least known to me) U.S. based public or private university. Total results? Around 400. This database has over 125,000 employee records (including former employees). That's the total number of people with degrees that were not immediately recognizable to me.

    One more sec...

    Just ran a pivot table by school. There are 362 unique schools. Alphabetize and check against this list. Done.

    The list of Axact customers just isn't nearly as fun as the Ashley Madison leak.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2016
  14. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Sez you. I couldn't care less about the Ashley Madison leak. B-o-r-i-n-g. Axact - real fun, to me, anyway!

    I'll take your word that HR managers wouldn't buy the list. I know nothing about HR or its managers - other than what little I learned through interaction in my work life. Don't even want to remember that...

    J.
     
  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I think this is very good advice. IIRC, the entire "St. Regis" scam's customer list, smaller than this, about 11,000 names if memory serves - was published in a newspaper. I imagine the paper did their legal clearance before publication. Possibly applicable laws have changed - it's been a few years...

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2016
  16. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Of course, the real fun starts when you cross reference the two lists. What's your guess about the number of names that occur on both?
     
  17. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Part in bold is simply not going to happen, which is the point. No one is going to make the distinction.
     
  18. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Yes. More than a few legal actions have been taken by the person who got screwed. See, for instance, the case detailed in our Degree Mills book, in which the logical candidate for a school principal job in Michigan (Master's required) was passed over in favor of a long-time teacher who bought a fake Master's (from Hamilton University) in order to "qualify" for the job.

    To me, one of the saddest facts in this arena relates to the fake LaSalle situation. Authorities recovered the names of 15,000 degree-holders, and well over $10 million in cash. The US Attorney wrote twice to those 15,000 people (after the 3 LaSalle founders pleaded guilty and went to prison), offering them a full refund, if they returned their LaSalle diplomas. Fewer than half accepted the offer, presumably preferring to keep and use the degree.

    I believe I'll have more to report on the Axact list of names before too long.
     
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Oh, quite a few, I guess. Addicts of "serial millinery" as our late member, Uncle Janko used to refer to it. Vă mulțumesc foarte mult , Janko preotul! "Thank you, Father Janko!" - Uncle J. was a Lutheran clergyman, proud of his Carpathian heritage.

    As I remember, people associated with the inner workings of other degree mills were among the serious buyers of Liberian "degrees." Perhaps some "milliners" will once again emerge - this time, with new Axact "degrees."

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2016
  20. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Gone, but never forgotten. :sadwavey:
     

Share This Page