California School of Law

We have talked about some correspondence law schools. This one has live online classes that you attend Tuesday and Thursday for three hours each night. Uses Socratic method.

Around 9000 per year. Appears to have good pass rates.Online Law School - The California School of Law Home

 

Looks like the JD degree is unaccredited and limited to use in California state only, even then only if a person passes the CalBar then it has better utility but still unaccredited.
The school welcomes Canadian and International students?

 

I'm surprised to note that they have a decent pass rate on the Baby Bar

http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/4/documents/Statistics/Oct2015fylxstats.033016.pdf

http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/4/documents/Statistics/Junefylxstats2015_R.pdf

 

Is that website a joke? It looks and functions like an elementary school computer club designed it.

 

I think they do because it is possible for graduates of a non ABA accredited law school to practice in Canada and UK (for example) if they pass the California Bar. Keeping in mind that the California Bar is one of the toughest in the nation, there is justification for doing so.

I read an article from 2014 (?) stating that the CA Bar may be too difficult (think there may have been a 50% pass rate).

 

Here is the article on the pass rate:
Fewer law school graduates pass bar exam in California - LA Times

 

Cally bar pass rate

Actually, it's not the bar pass rate in California itself that is the issue but the much lower pass rate for some minorities.

Here's the latest data:

http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/4/documents/Statistics/JULY2015STATS.121715.pdf

You can see that the pass rate for white graduates of ABA schools is 72% (in state) 66% (out) but 53%, 33% for Blacks, 61%, 47% for Hispanics. The pass rate for whites from ABA schools is similar to the national average, or maybe just a little below.

It is the opinion of some that if whites do better on an exam than Blacks or Hispanics, then the exam must be unfair and racist.

Also lowering the average pass rate are all the non-ABA ways of taking the bar (except for "US Attorneys" ((a US Attorney is like a deputy DA for the Feds))): California only accredited 13%, Cally unaccredited 11%, foreign attorneys 11%.

Finally, "Repeaters" (those who have previously failed the exam) have a low pass rate: 16%

Some never give up

California Bar Journal

Some do:

Antonio Villaraigosa, the mayor of California, failed the CA bar exam four times before finally calling it quits. - See more at: https://www.lexisnexis.com/lextalk/work-life-balance/f/6/t/639.aspx#sthash.xnGSbVP5.dpuf

On a personal note: I passed the California bar exam on the first try and I've never known ANYONE who graduated from law school and studied hard for the bar that did not pass the first time.

 

The degree is unaccredited and that by it self presents a problem. Nothing on the web about accreditation. If one fails to pass the exam the degree of no value.
There is a difference between CalBar attorney with an accredited degree and one who has unaccredited degree.
The utilization of unaccredited JD is low and may be unrecognized in many countries.

Canada may require additional study and a mandatory Canadian exams.
Just an opinion, I think they need to get RA in addition to what they do.
Then in the future if one doesn't become an attorney they still hold recognized degree that can help with education, employment etc.

 

If you don't pass the bar then a school's ABA accreditation is meaningless. This is pretty much the case with many programmatic accreditors. If you have an MS in Counseling but don't have a license then whether the program is CACREP accredited is largely irrelevant in terms of degree utility. There are also RA and NA law degrees that are non-ABA accredited making them irrelevant to the legal community (in most places).

While accreditation is a good thing the lack of accreditation does not negate the learning you achieved. A good number of states, New York included, have provisions for graduates of unaccredited law schools to take the bar. New York prohibits correspondence or online law degree holders from taking the bar but graduates of more than a few "CA only" law schools seem like they would fit the bill. But beyond the practice of law, there are a number of jobs where legal knowledge is necessary. Just being an,e to demonstrate knowledge of contract law alone has applicability in HR, purchasing and procurement, Grant administration and numerous other areas. People in these fields don't need a JD. However, I can imagine where having one, even an unaccredited one, might potentially give an applicant a leg up in an interview.

I'm not saying that's something to aspire to, mind you. But it's a far cry from being completely worthless. A medical degree without a license is fairly worthless irrespective of accreditation. But I have seen some pretty clever spinning of unlicensed MDs, NDs and RNs into other fields. To me, this wouldn't be very different.

 

In our agency, we hire a great number of non-practicing law school graduates. Licensure as an attorney is not required, but their law degrees help them get hired. A law degree from a CalBar-accredited school might be okay. Not so sure about an unaccredited law school at an RA school (like Concord).

 

If I graduated law school and failed the bar, personally I would not advertise that I graduated law school because this implies that I failed the bar.

Very little of what one learns in law school is of practical value in the business world. Except for a very few subjects (the UCC, tax, community property in California) no state law is usually taught. In fact because the bar exam is based on the so-called Common Law, learning state law wouldn't be useful on the bar exam. Of course Constitutional Law is national but I don't think many businesses are much concerned about that,

Here's the difference.? in Common Law burglary is the "breaking and entering of dwelling at night yo commit a felony there-in" (this is from memory)

In California, a burglary doesn't have to be a dwelling (in fact it doesn't even have to be a building), doesn't have to be at night, breaking is not required (you do have to enter) and you don't have to intend a felony.

I don't know if businesses really hire folks who failed the bar but have law degrees for their legal knowledge. If they do, they aren't getting much

 

Well usually people have accredited Bachelors degree before they go to Law School.
So that's the good news.
The persons gets an education in unaccredited program, yes.
Thats good to.
But for jobs that require an accredited masters degree usually an accredited JD will be sufficient.
And unaccredited JD will not simple as that.

I know many people who earned Masters of Social Work or Psychology degree yet for personal reason opted to not become licensed in that field.

They still have good accredited masters degrees. I can't say the same for holders of unaccredited degrees but as I stated for most of the time if Bachelors degree is accredited.

Some graduate programs will grant up to 18 semester credits as transfer in case one desired to earn another Masters or get a Doctoral or Ph.D.
In many local, county or state government there are very cool jobs that require an accredited Masters.
That is my opinion.
So I totally disagree that JD ABA accredited is the same as Unaccredited JD.
Accredited ABA JD will open many doors, including jobs in Corporations, Law enforcement, Military, Education, Consulting to name a few.
licenses for nonlawyers
"People with an interest in law, but who haven't passed the bar – still have job options even in this competitive market, experts say.

And those opportunities may soon expand, as the American Bar Association's Task Force on the Future of Legal Education recently recommended the legal community explore, among other steps, creating licenses for nonlawyers to perform certain kinds of legal work.

In a September draft report, the task force described several ways to revamp law school and the profession of law, but it also discussed the need for more people to offer legal services.

However, there are several law-related career paths available right now to students contemplating law school or who are on the verge of graduating from an "accredited" J.D. program, experts say."

 

Graduates of law schools--whether or not they every worked as licensed attorneys--are very valuable recruits to our agency. The skills they learn in law school are directly applicable to what most of our employees do.

 

That's good to know.
maybe I'm wrong in my opinion about CalBar approved schools.

(B) A “California accredited law school” is a law school that has complied with the
Rules on Accreditation of Law Schools and has been accredited by the
Committee.
C) “The Committee” is the Committee of Bar Examiners of the State Bar of
California.

My question
is this school accredited or unaccredited but approved.

http://rules.calbar.ca.gov/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=5LAwXeKsh6U%3D&tabid=1227

The Committee maintains lists of law schools operating in California: those accredited
by the Committee, those registered as unaccredited by the Committee, and those
approved by the American Bar Association.

 

I never said it was "the same." I simply said that unaccredited does not mean "useless" and a person with an unaccredited JD may find themselves in a situation where an employer appreciates the education they have under their belts even if it isn't ABA accredited.

Your assessment also implies that ALL non-ABA law degrees are "unaccredited" degrees. That isn't true. There are a handful of DEAC accredited non-ABA JD programs out there. With California Southern, there's a distance learning non-ABA JD that is RA.

The job market for lawyers is pretty abysmal right now. And that's for people who passed the bar. A traditional law school graduate tends to not have work experience. They continue on to law school directly from undergrad.

The type of person who goes to a non-ABA accredited law school tends to be a working adult. If you are an HR professional before law school you can be one after as well. And having that law degree, even an unaccredited one, might give you a little boost.

That's all very charming. But a lot of people aren't exactly jazzed with the ABA these days. Besides that, the ABA cannot just impose more licensing restrictions on the world. They can lobby to have the laws changed. And they might succeed in a few states. But they already accredit paralegal programs and yet, the bulk of the nation doesn't require graduation from an ABA paralegal program to work as a paralegal.

In fact, while meeting with a colleague (an HR Manager for a large law firm) she told me that she doesn't like hiring people with degrees in paralegal studies. The firm's preference is to hire people with unrelated degrees (or even no degree at all) and train them from scratch. They've had really bad luck at breaking the bad habits of some paralegals.

So, no, things aren't looking rosy for JD graduates in general. And it's the ABA's job to try and make it look like they will be. More JD graduates = more money for the ABA.

Personally, I hope that more states approve non-ABA law schools for bar admission. Schools like Massachusetts School of Law (non-ABA, RA) can qualify you for the bar in MA and CT (and New York has provisions where you can get licensed here too). I'd love to see that particular monopoly broken down and legal education made available more broadly.

 

I didn't imply ABA is the only accredited degree, DEAC or RA is in my view accredited degree.
The question I ask is Calbar degree like the Cal Law school is considered accredited?
If not then utility is more limited then a degree that is accredited.
I agree that young students going to traditional law school after college or university even with degree only have limited paralegal opportunists.
Many end up working in low paying jobs, non related to law.
Until they pass the bar.
Then even with passing the bar it takes a lot of time to get a job. I think the school would serve the graduates better if the degrees were accredited.

 

law school accreditation

RA and DEAC accreditation are essentially irrelevant for a law degree. Only ABA accreditation permits one to take the bar exam in any state. A few states such as California, have THEIR OWN law school accreditation. This has nothing at all to do with RA or DEAC accreditation.California is unique I believe in allwoing the graduates of non-accredited laws school or even law-clerking to qualify for their bar exam.

I disagree that increasing the number of state and unaccredited law school would be to the advantage of the consumer. As the data I posted above show, most of those who attend state or non-accredited law schools have little chance of passing the bar. AND note that these are the students who have finished law school and passed the baby bar. Many more, the vast majority, find that they lack the ability or skills to complete law school and/ or pass the baby bar.

Many State and unaccredited law schools are like for-profit trade schools that admit anyone who can get a student loan regardless of their ability to do the work. Inevitably they drop or are pushed out and end up with no means for paying them.

I support the notion of opportunity for everyone BUT not if it's a essentially a false hope that ends up being a money trap.

The issue of distance law school is different because there are undoubtedly some well-qualified potential students who live too far from an accredited law school. In my opinion therefore distace school should be permitted to exist - - however, I believe they should be required to haven entering students meet reasonable standards of preparedness so there is not again the "false hope" problem.

There always has to be a balance between accessibility and likelihood of success. Theoretically most of us believe that anyone should have the opportunity to TRY, But this must be weighed against the reality of extensive debts paid not only by the failing student but by us taxpayers when there is the inevitable amnesty.

 

True all.

 

While I, too, appreciate the open opportunity, I feel schools have a social responsibility to offer opportunities that tend to make sense. California unaccredited law schools are a classic example. They're wide open, but the odds of becoming an attorney as a result of attending them is quite small, perhaps as low as 1% for incoming students. I appreciate California's more-liberal approach, but I think they can tighten it up a bit. (It used to be even worse in the old "3 tier" days, when getting authorization to operate a university was a snap and opening a law school not much harder. Southland University ring a bell?)

Unaccredited, residential schools aren't much better, by the way.