Law School

I am considering a DL Law School like British-American University. Any horror stories, any plusses. I've got their literature including " How to Become A Lawyer Without Attending Law School ". But does anybody have any real experiance with this venue.

Dave

KC7WGB

 

Dave,
The only thing I have heard is that depending on where you are going to take the bar exam (assuming you are going to practice in the US) the failure rate from non-accredited ABA schools is very high. I am sure a very intelligent person who studies on their own can pass the bar. Realize also that depending on what type of job you are looking for, many law firms (especially big ones) will shy away from hiring you. In the US, Law firms tend to be very "cliquey" and will often recruit from schools that they have strong alumni ties to. If you are looking to make the Big dollars I think it will be much harder to break in.

 

I would suggest that, first, you look at the pass rates of DL law schools. Secondly, be resigned to the fact that probably the only place you will be allowed to practice is CA --- if you pass the baby bar and the bar.

DL law schools sound good, but from my reseach, outside of CA they are pretty much useless.

Several others here may give you a different perspective.

 

Low Bar pass rates, a lack of prestige in terms of the school and degree, and a lack of networking opportunities are certainly three significant drawbacks to studying the law by correspondence. I would add two others.

Students at unaccredited California law schools (and all correspondence law schools are unaccredited by the State Bar) must take and pass the "Baby Bar" after their first year. This must be done in California. And while a student may continue for awhile in his/her studies while awaiting its results, a failure to pass this exam will preclude the student from proceeding to the final three years--further study won't count towards qualifying for the Bar Exam until after the Baby Bar is passed. Students from correspondence schools have horrible pass rates. (Just as they have below average pass rates on the Bar Exam--and that's only those who've made it past the Baby Bar.)

Secondly, any correspondence study is lonely and burdensome. We talk about pass rates on the Baby Bar and Bar Exam, and how dismal they are, but that's only for those who've stuck it out that far. We don't have numbers to show us attrition rates (that I know of), but attrition rates for correspondence study of any kind are pretty high--I would imagine they'd be high for studying law as well, especially when it will take about 20 hours per week for four straight years!

 

KC7WGB DE AA7NP

That's not a California call sign; are you intending to move or what?

If you think that a D/L JD will do what you want it to do, look at the list of correspondence law schools at www.calbar.org

There are cheaper alternatives than BAU and there are D/L schools whose graduates actually take and pass the bar exam. Northwestern Cal U is my personal favorite. Remember, legally there is NO DIFFERENCE between CA bar qualifying D/L programs and NONE of them have any prestige whatever.

So go for cheap.

Nosborne, JD

 

Somewhat related, as the best and in most cases, only way to practice is to attend a (fully)RA/ABA B&M school:


The Florida Supreme Court ruled Thursday that the first 111 graduates of the Barry University School of Law in Orlando cannot become lawyers in this state.


http://www.lawschool100.com/flapractice.htm

 

Okay, the state allowed them to operate a law school, then denied 111 students the right to become attorneys. What the heck is that?

This isn't about education. It is about a guild restricting tihe labor supply to bolster what it can charge. The ABA, AMA, and many others have this as a core purpose and competency. I hope the 111 Barry grads can find a real lawyer....

 

Rich,

I totally agree.

Tony

 

David--

I agree that the best option for an attorney-to-be is an ABA approved law school.

However, that is not a viable option for everyone. For example, I had a stroke in 1987, which left me with residual paralysis. That, along with my business and professional commitments, made residential law study virtually impossible.

I am now in my fourth year at BAU. I chose BAU over the other DL CA schools because of the video lectures, which I found helpful. Regular online chats with faculty are also available.

Although a high degree of self-discipline is required, I have found law study to be pleasant and fascinating--certainly not boring.

I passed the Baby Bar on my first attempt with a "B" and also passed the MPRE with plenty of points to spare. Next year I plan to take the CA general bar exam.

I have been pleased with my BAU experience. I do not have any experience with other correspondence law schools.

Best wishes,

Christopher Kent
KG2NP
(I'm not sure what these amateur call signs have to do with DL, but heck, here's mine).

 

Christopher:

What a nice story. Sometimes the exceptions get lost in the very necessary generalizations about DL issues. Good luck with the Bar....

 

CQ de AA7NP

BT

This raises a question I've had in mind for some time. The way every state grades its Bar exams is "blind"; the graders do not know the identity of the applicant nor of his or her law school. Everyone is compared with everyone else.

Now, graduates of ABA accredited schools and Cal Bar approved schools, all of which are residental, are not required to take the Baby Bar. Therefore, the graders of the Baby Bar exam KNOW that they are grading correspondence students, private clerkship students, or students at unapproved, and therefore "inferior" residential schools.

I wonder if there might be a tendency to grade harder on the Baby Bar than maybe they should?

AR K

Nosborne, JD

 

I have always supported the Baby Bar requirement. Having reviewed hundreds of Baby Bar answers over almost 20 years, I am convinced the process, while not perfect, is fair.

Fifty percent of the Baby Bar questions are objective (multistate) style. Only once have I seen a student who scored over 80% on the objective questions fail the exam.

I still would like to see all law students attending California schools take the exam. I think it would be a real eye-opener for the ABA schools.

 

Nosborne --

Actually, there is one other group of students that end up taking the Baby Bar in California, and those are students at ABA and CalBar schools that end up in serious academic trouble after the first year. At my ABA school, there's academic probation, which is handled within the school, but if you are at the bottom of the academic probation range -- but not yet at the point where they simply flat-out kick you out -- you may be in BabyBar territory.

However, when you add the "just barely staying in school" students to the others listed above, it probably does little to improve the opinions that the examiners have of the students who end up taking th Baby Bar.

Richard

 

I wonder

I will bet my right pinky nail that the ABA and probably the Florida Bar lobbyed that judge to ensure that those Barry students are not allowed to practice in Florida!

I continue to have a personal issue with this! If I go to a DL ApA approved Psychology school I can still practice! Heck, a lady in my organization went to SCUPS and is allowed to work! The ABA is going to bend...one day, if people stop enrolling in Traditional Law Schools and the ABA starts to lose money!

BTW, I am a little hypocritical because I just enrolled in an ABA Law School myself...Hey, I may get an inside vote one day that gets a DL School Like OakBrook into an ABA recognition!!

Mike

AA Burlington College
BA TESC
MS Southwest Mo St.
JD Chapman Univ. (In Progress)

 

BTW, here's a link to a story on law.com about the ABA's "propsed" endorsement of limited DL credits for law students:

Law.com Article

 

Why? The general bar pass rates for ABA-approved schools are typically substantially higher than non ABA-approved schools (regardless of whether the school is in CA or elsewhere).

For instance, the pass rate on the July 2001 exam for first-timers from ABA-approved schools in CA was 79% and 70% for out-of-state ABA-approved schools. Compare those figures with a 33% pass rate for CA accredited but not ABA-approved schools, 31% for DL schools, and 14% for CA unaccredited schools.

 

I am not questioning that the Baby Bar is fairly graded, as far as that goes. However, it is not the graders that decide what score on the multiple choice or essay portion is a PASSING score. That's the source of my question. Without participation by ALL law students, is it possible to determine whether the Baby Bar students are being treated fairly in comparason with the ABA and Cal Bar resident students?

Nosborne, JD

 

Good Faith Effort

Nos,

I think that the Baby Bar exam is just a good faith effort! Just like when kids take the SAT-9 Tests...how do you really measure and where do you draw the line? If you take the top 40% average of the test-takers for a given period and count their scores as passing...is that fair for the bottom 60%. I know that I am going on about semantics, however I think that at least there is something out there that is standardized and helps add credibility (miniscule amount) to the DL/CA Accredited/Un-Accredited schools.

 

Baby Bar scores are "scaled" to compensate for differences in difficulty between exams.

In the case of my Baby Bar exam, the "scaling" process resulted in adding points to the essay scores, and subtracting points from the multiple choice scores.

I do not know how the scaling process is performed, or which exam the scores are adjusted to match.

The pass rates vary from exam to exam.

Christopher

 

Hmm.

Well, it is the function of Bar examiners to determine whether an applicant has a certain level of legal knowlege. It is not their function to determine what knowlege the average applicant may possess; it isn't the same thing as the GRE, say.

That being so, I guess that the Baby Bar probably does what it is supposed to do. Anyway, judging by the D/L Bar exam pass rates, the Baby Bar is maybe a little TOO generous in passing first year students! (Excluding Oakbrook, of course!)

Nosborne, JD