Who needs algebra?

Only 5% of jobs require this skill so why force everyone to learn it?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/algebra-unnecessary-stumbling-block-us-schools-170616735.html

 

I think basic algebra is important to learn, but I can't justify the more advanced stuff that is taught in college algebra. For me, it was use it or lose it. I did very well in high school algebra and forgot almost everything except for the basic stuff by the time I needed college algebra for TESU's BSBA. I completed it a few years ago through ALEKS, but I've probably forgotten a lot of stuff again. Some schools offer easier math classes that meet degree requirements such as math for liberal arts or math for social science and business.

 

I have no particular problem with a "Algebra for non-technical students" being available, but I somehow think that other countries are not dumbing down their curriculum to obtain more "success". I have come to the conclusion that our society has made being "math phobic" almost cool, or at least socially acceptable...which becomes a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Even one of my own kids fell victim to it in high school, becoming convinced that she just didn't have the head for math, when she just needed to study and believe that she could succeed. When math grades suffered, I would tutor and find that she was indeed able to comprehend the material, given a modicum of work and explanation.

This one didn't become a STEM major, but she is no longer afraid of math courses. I think we need to find a way to change this about our society.

 

I'm somewhat ambivalent about this. When I was in 8th grade I took algebra and my teacher at the time, and one teacher I will never forget, was great at teaching the subject. He was so good in fact that it set me up for algebra 2, then to algebra 3 and trigonometry and took me through calculus by the end of my high school career (throwing in Geometry somewhere in there for good measure). Now I am far from a mathematical genius but my original teacher made it possible and it is something I'm proud of. If you take away the requirement for algebra in high school, then it would dilute the high school diploma more than it already is. If you continue to require it, then make sure you've got teachers that know their stuff and can teach it on a level that students can understand.

In my current program at PFC I was required to take intermediate algebra in the 3rd semester. I literally had to reteach myself algebra (I did mention earlier that I'm not a mathematical genius didn't I?) and relied on tutoring from my daughter. And a funny thing happened. From time to time I had an ah-ha moment. My mind made a connection with what I learned so many years ago. In no small part thanks to my original algebra teacher. I actually did fairly well in the course and am proud that I was able to do it again even though I wondered about its relevance from time to time. But maybe its not so much about whether it is relevant, or it strengthens critical thinking skills, or anyone of a number of other questions. Maybe it exposes students to new ways of seeing things and can introduce them to concepts that can put a light bulb over their head where they say, "Hey I can do this!" And if this happens who knows where that student will go from there.

 

Conceivably I could be called upon to use my Math skills at work but it rarely happens. I had an instructor tell me once that the real reason for making maths a requirement was that it taught logical problem solving. That may be true but if so it would seem that there are other ways to accomplish this. A course(s) in Logic could be substituted along with a course(s) in Critical Thinking. Arguably these would be more useful to many people.

 

As stated in the article, statistics is more useful. Despite so many people having to take algebra, they still make many logical errors. In this area, I believe statistics is superior, and some schools count it toward the math requirement.

 

You use some algebra in financial accounting, and in some corners of cost accounting, they even use exotic stuff like differential equations and the like. Math is good because it trains your brain in basic logic, which is applicable to most anything. Why lift weights when you play football? Because lifting weights serves any purpose standing alone? No, because it increases your physical strength which enables you to get some separation to catch the pass or block for the QB or get round the block and sack the QB or fend off the tackle or make the tackle.

 

There's immunization --- but still no cure! :sad:

J.

 

I agree with the author of this article to some extent. I have rarely used algebra in my professional life. I use arithmetic and geometry most days and occasionally I use some basic trig. I do use statistics in one for or another on a daily basis. From a real-life perspective I would think statistics adds more value to almost anyone than algebra does.

I can still remember struggling through 8'th grade algebra. I hated that class. I enjoyed geometry and trig after algebra.

 

There are two issues at play here. Who needs algebra? and Who can do algebra? We learn all sorts of things that we don't need/use but maybe we don't make a big deal out of it because we can do/learn it easily enough. But lots of people have trouble learning Math and so it's understandable that in their unhappiness they ask, "Do I really need this? Will I ever actually use this stuff?" Partly I think the problem is that math foundations are often taught by people who are not necessarily good at math themselves. Maybe they took the requisite course in college 10 years earlier but maybe it was their least favorite part of teaching and now they're stuck teaching it anyway. Can we then be surprised that a bunch of people who are otherwise quite intelligent end up not liking math and not being very good at it?

 

A good number of successful societies don't impose liberal arts requirements on students. If you go to school to study philosophy you study philosophy. Law? Study law. Out of 120 credits (average) at a U.S. University most students will dedicate no more than 30 credits to their actual field of interest. So, approximately 25% of a B.A. in Classics is actually going to be spent studying, you know, Classics. The rest of it will be spent in courses designed to make you more "well rounded." At Scranton, we had "diversity" and "writing intensive" requirements that had to be met. Which often meant that your electives had to be spent outside of your discipline to meet this extra requirements. If you were smart and lucky, you could double them up. You had to take literature, for example. And you could take a lit course that was tagged as diversity and writing intensive. But courses that met multiple requirements filled up fast with seniors who waited to the last minute and since they got first pick of all courses...

Granted some programs will let you spend closer to half of your four year actually studying the thing that appears on your diploma. But that's still not very good.

I'd venture so far as to say that if studying CompSci or Math meant that you went to school and only studied those subjects some of our tech moguls of today wouldn't have dropped out of school so they could spend more time coding and less time trying to pick a history, literature, social science and natural science elective to make them renaissance men and women.

Same thing happened to me. But it didn't happen until my junior year when I studied Trigonometry with a very bad teacher who didn't have a college degree (Catholic school). She would write the equations on the board and make us copy them down in our notebooks. Notebooks, which were collected at the end of each semester and reviewed, counted for 90% of our grades. As long as you copied it exactly you were guaranteed to get a 90 (B+). Quizzes and tests only made up 10%. She also couldn't answer questions about the equations because she admitted that she had never studied trigonometry herself, but I digress.

I only became math phobic when I started venturing into an area of math that I had no interest in learning and, unless I went on to study a handful of disciplines that I had no interest in studying, I would never need. And since Pre-Calc and Calculus were electives I simply opted not to take them. So I would posit that our society has made it fashionable to be math phobic because we've all been exposed to mathematics at levels that are completely unnecessary for most of us. That trig class chased me away from math and math-like subjects. But the kids who went on to become engineers and software developers couldn't get enough of that stuff. Our problem isn't that some people just aren't interested in math it's that we, as a society, think that if we force everyone to take calc it will make the non-engineers become engineers.

 

I've given a lot of thought to the algebra conundrum, and I believe the main problem for many (as it certainly was for me) is the way algebra is taught. I'm not too proud to admit that algebra was a stumbling block for me back in high school. I survived it, but I did not thrive in it. In retrospect, I believe the problem was too many new concepts being thrown at me at once. I suspect this is the problem others who struggle with algebra have as well. Let me try to explain:

When a new algebraic concept is introduced (like solving a quadratic equation), students are expected not only to understand how to solve the equation, they must know how to solve the problem using fractions, decimals, exponents, etc. I believe it's too much to throw at most students at once.

The vast majority of algebraic concepts are not that difficult to grasp if you introduce them with integers (positive and negative numbers). I truly believe that algebra could be taught more effectively and many more would grasp the concepts if an introductory algebra course using only integers could used as a first step. An algebra course with exponents, fractions, decimals, and more difficult problems overall could be offered as a more advanced algebra course.

This solution would allow more people to gain an understanding of algebra without being beaten up by it. Those who need a more in-depth understanding (like those headed for careers in STEM majors) could go on to take the more advanced course.

 

Steve Jobs was a big proponent of humanities education because design is such a big part of making Apple's products. I believe the tech moguls who dropped out did so because they didn't need a degree in computer science to learn how to code. People have been teaching themselves how to code for decades. If you just want a vo-tech education, you can take some community college courses. A degree in computer science is supposed to take you beyond the basic level of just coding. Advanced mathematics and physics are required to have a full understanding of computer science, and a basic level of knowledge of human behavior is needed if you're going to go into design. If one does not want to study all of those things, then there are AAS programs in information technology and undergraduate certificates in programming.

This article was posted in another thread.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/03/17/why-students-are-throwing-tons-of-money-at-a-program-that-wont-give-them-a-college-degree/

This is what TEKMAN wrote in response to the article.

http://www.degreeinfo.com/computer-related-degrees/52290-online-coding-bootcamps.html#post482126

 

I am baffled by discussions like this. Algebra is about manipulating symbols to extract meaning, using a relatively modest set of relatively simple rules. Almost any other college-level subject should be way harder than Algebra and engage the very same cognitive skills, but in more challenging contexts.
Let me put it this way: coding a computer program that would manipulate polynomials according to algebraic rules is a first year Programming assignment. Writing a program capable of producing an original, college-level essay is open research problem. Computer understanding of a social science or humanities topic as required of a college major is way beyond current science. Algebra is EASY.

 

uhh, statistics without algebra?? I'm not talking college algebra but I can't imagine someone getting through statistics without first-year high school algebra.

 

Most calculations in statistics involve little more than basic arithmetic. From my undergrad stats course: "If you can add, subtract, multiply and divide, you can do statistics."

 

The same could be said for into algebra or HS algebra; if you can add, subtract, multiply, and divide, you can do Algebra. I agree with the article. If your future career path needs higher than basic Algebra it will be part of your college requirements (actually weather or not it does, it's will sill be required), high school need only be basic introductory algebra.