Greenwich University - legal place of degree issue

I have received this application in our personell department. It states: "I have just recently graduated with Greenwich University, Australia for a MBA degree". Is "Australia" a correct statement, or is he trying to mislead?
Forum members, kindly advise me.
adelheid

 

He is either:

a. trying to mislead; or

b. truly unaware of what Australian educational authorities have said about Greenwich University; or

c. both of the above


Tom Nixon

 

Dear Tom Nixon:

I was just trying to establish whether this his is a legally correct statement.

For example, a "Warnborough University "degree can not be called "Irish", but they make this very clear in their website ("It is an international degree, not an Irish or UK degree").

But with Greenwich, this is a different thing. Personally, I don't think one can call it an Australian degree. But it is not my opinion that is important, but the legal side.

Any further advise?


adelheid

 

The Greenwich University MBA is a Norfolk Island degree.

 

But studying this forum, I can not find any evidence that Norfolk Islands may issue their own degrees. As such, am I right in assuming that this is NOT a proper degree?

adelheid

 

Dear adelheid

Nothing is simple about Greenwich at Norfork Island.

Norforlk Island certainly can legislate to approve degree-granting institutions. They can and they have.

Therefore, is the degree legal? Yes. They have an Act of Paliament from the NI legislature.

Is the degree issued in Australia? Yes. NI is part of the Commonwealth of Australia.

Is the degree recognised by established and legitimate Australian universities? No.

Is the degree a proper degree? It depends on your interpretation of "proper". It is legeal in the sense that Greenwich holds the proper legal authority under NI law. It is legal, in the sense that one would not, to my knowledge, break a law, at least an Australian law, in holding one. Therefreo, one could say, as your correspondent has, "I have just recently graduated with Greenwich University, Australia for a MBA degree," (as poor English as that is, I'd worry about that before his degree) and be telling the truth. But it would not be the truth to say or imply that one held an AUSTRALIAN degree without explaining that that degree would not be recognised by an Australian University.

In other words, Greenwich degrees are from Australia but they are not Australian. Get it?

Kind regards

 

I would say that whether or not Greenwich can be (strictly speaking) called an Australian university, the fact that Norfolk Island is an Australian territory makes "Greenwich University, Australia" an acceptable way of listing the school (perhaps even exemplary, if we take it to mean that the student is concerned you might confuse it with the venerable and royally chartered Greenwich University, UK).


Cheers,

 

It seems that Norfolk Island is in danger of becoming Australia's version of the pre-Jeffrey Brunton Hawaii.


Bruce

 

Dear Peter E. Tucker, dear Tom Head:

I am not sure if I agree with you. If you say that listing it as "Greenwich University, Australia" is acceptable because the Norfolk Islands are Australian Territory, then, for the argument's sake, this would mean that it would also be acceptable to write "St. Clements University, UK" and all the other university creatures of the UK overseas territories (as so many "graduates" or should we say: "degree receivers", actually do).

Or not?

adelheid

 

You cannot compare Greenwich to St Clements. St Clements is an International Business Coproration on the Turks and Caicos Islands - my grandmother could create such a legal entity, and she is three feet under!

Greenwich, on the other hand, has an Act of Parliament assented to by the Commonwealth of Australia and the Norfolk Island Legislature. Education is both the responsibility of NI and the Commonwealth - the Commonwealth must approve any Act before it becomes law. The Commonwealth did this in late 1998, however some controversey transpired about how the Act was assented to and what level of consulatation occurred. Notwithstanding this, the cooling off period expired (the time in which the Governor General had the power to rescind the Act), and the Act became law. My understanding is that Greenwich thought that listing on the AQF register would be automatic - this was not the case. As such, the degrees Greenwich issues are Norfolk Island degrees, not Australian degrees.

This can be verified by searching the AQF Register. Note Greenwich is not listed - as such, it is not authorised to issue Australian degrees.

Therefore, this individual possesses a Norfolk Island degree, not an Australian degree.

Cheers,

George

 

Thank you, George Brown. This has pretty much cleared the Greenwich thing up.

How then can for example a St. Clements University issue degrees if they are only an International Business Corporation, without being authorized in one form or another from their government? Would this be comparible to Hawaii - government registered as a business (or: university?) entity, but not government authorized, nevertheless being able to issue degrees?

adelheid

 

It's simple - write up your own articles of incorporation to state that you sell degrees, pay the money, and away you go. Brown's International University Pty Ltd - sounds grand, no??

Cheers,

George

 

Yeeees, regard me as your first student - do I get a scholarship?

adelheid

 

Dear George Brown:

I guess you are referring to something like this:
http://www.stgeorgeuniversity.edu/main/legal-documents/statutory_sgui.htm

Right?

adelheid

 

Norfolk Island is an integral part of Australia. It has internal self government and passed legislation authorizing Greenwich University. Norfolk Islanders are citizens of Australia and are able to vote in Australian federal elections.

Residents of British colonies do not carry full citizenship of the United Kingdom. I have known several residents of, formerly British, Hong Kong who have attested to this fact.

Greenwich University is as legal as any other Australian university.

But - The Australian Qualications Authority, before accepting Greenwich as an Australian university decided to do probably its first inspection of a university and Greenwich failed. It appears that they made up rules to deal specifically with Greenwich.

To answer your questions and more:

Is Greenwich an Australian University? Definitely, Norfolk Island being an integral part of Australia.

Is it a legal university? Definitely, by act of the Norfolk Island legislature.

Is it of the quality expected from an Australian university? The Australian Qualification Authority says no, but I don't believe that they reviewed other Australian universities.

Is it a degree mill? No.

Note that while resident in the United States, Greenwich never received any recognized accreditation.

 

I'm not yet convinced that there are any schools on Norfolk Island other than Greenwich, but I could be wrong.


Cheers,

 

Incorrect. Bond was fully reviewed before their Act was passed. Rules governing the creation of a University have existed for many years, the criteria being published by the Australian Vice Chancellors Committee.

The criteria were revisted to accomodate a 'virtual' university when Greenwich appeared and were drafted before the review took place.

Cheers,

George

 

George Brown

Are you sure that I am incorrect about Greenwich being the only Australian University made to jump through hoops in an attempt at recognition?

Bond University was started 10 years earlier under a different set of rules. The Australian Qualifications Framework legislation being passed only in 1995 to fully take effect by 2000.

The Act authorizing Greenwich University became law on December 10, 1998.

I have spent a couple hours reviewing what is left on web-sites concerning Greenwich's attempt for recognition.

If everything was so cut and dried, why does it look like nobody in charge seemed to know what they were doing and gave the appearance of making it up as they went along. Maybe it doen't appear that way to you.

Unfortunately I have not the time or will to start reading Australian legislation. I am sure all truly interested parties have. I notice that 4 or 5 years ago, a George Brown was offering opinions on the matter.

Harvard and Yale must undergo periodic review by their accreditors. If all Australian Universities undergo periodic review, fine. If only one must undergo review, could there be a question of fairness?

Is it not true in the past that state or territorial legislation was all that a university required to be considered fully accredited?

 

I would tend to agree.


As far as I can recall Norfolk Island is an autonomous entity, in that they sort of govern themselves in spite of being part of Australia, is this not correct?

So, while Greenwich U may not be part of Australia's educational system in so far as the AQF is concerned they ARE fully part of Norfolk Island's educational system.

Is this a correct interpretation?

 

I worked in Canberra for three years as correspondence writer for several Australian Ministers of Education. Recognised Australian universities had a pecking order on a scale of 1 to 6. Sydney, ANU, University of Queensland for example were in the top (1) category. USQ and UNT were graded 6. I don't think Greenwich University was ever considered for inclusion. In fact the Australian Commownealth authorities were very annoyed that Greenwich had managed to get a sort of Australian identity by incorporating in Norfolk Island.