Penn Foster Online Engineering Technology degree

Hello all!
Right now I already have a career as an engineer technician which I got out of school ( I went to a trade school for electrical ). I had a talk with my boss recently and he wanted me to get more of an educational backing behind engineering so I can advance through the company. I am a traveling engineer technician so I cant really go to a formal college since I am gone on the road most of the time. I found Penn Fosters online engineering technology degree and was wondering if anyone could give me any feedback on the overall degree and time length on which it can be completed working a full time job. Right now I am currently employed in the engineering field, my employer just wants the education to back it which they said they would pay for ( up to 1500 dollars a year ). I work full time (40-60 hours a week) and I am traveling constantly so I want something that could be flexible. I was wondering if Penn Foster would hold any value since I already am employed in the field. I showed the degree to our engineer and he seems to like it I just want to do my research before committing to this school. Any feedback on the school or the engineering technology degree from Penn Foster would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you so much!

 

From their website.

Online Engineering Technology Associates Degree | Penn Foster College

You will still need to go somewhere for a lab course. also, Penn Foster is an NA school ? I'm not sure how will that affect your future prospects if you jump to another company. Will ABET help for yourself ? Or perhaps considering an RA school like the big 3 ?

TESC has some engineering tech programs.

Online Degree Programs | Thomas Edison State College

Excelsior has some tech programs as well

Excelsior College | Technology

And i believe it's ABET accredited. Well their EE tech program is.

Excelsior College | Bachelors Degrees | Electrical Engineering Technology – Electronics

You could test out the first 2 years of courses, than slowly use your company's reimbursement to finish the remaining 60 credits via test/independent study/self pace online courses. don't know if you can fit everything on a $1500/year budget though.

 

On the lab part it states "you may qualify to receive credit for this lab by submitting a life/work experience portfolio showing that you’ve acquired similar skills to those emphasized in the laboratory training". So since I am already doing engineer type work I figured I can supplement it for my lab work.
I have researched the BIG 3 schools but it seems much harder to fit around my schedule since I am working and traveling full time. Plus I couldn't really fit those into a 1500 a year budget which is why Penn Foster was appealing to me.. I talked to our engineer here about wether the accreditation is a make or break but he stated "in the field you're in experience is more important in my eyes" so since I have already been doing this for 4 years I figured the accreditation wasn't too big of a deal but I could be wrong which is why I am here

 

I can't comment on how Penn Foster handles portfolio reviews when issuing credit. I will state though, that in general, you may be surprised at how difficult it is to obtain credit via portfolio.

If you're working on your first associates or bachelors degree, you may want to consider filling out a FASFA application. It's possible you're eligible for a Pell Grant or even a Stafford Loan, both would help out tremendously more than the mere $1500 annual budget you're currently working with.

While experience is incredibly important in engineering, accreditation DOES matter. I can absolutely state that many companies will not accept a Penn Foster or ITT degree as acceptable for even engineering technicians, yet alone full engineers.

 

You really can't "absolutely" say that. Well, to be fair, you can. You'd just be mistaken. While it is true that many companies won't accept an NA degree to become a full engineer that is not necessarily the case for engineering technicians. And to say that "many" companies even give the subject of Penn Foster much thought simply lacks basis in reality.

Experience as an engineering tech is valued above an associates degree, typically speaking. I know this. I hire plenty of engineers and technicians. And any hiring manager is going to prefer a tech with 10+ years of experience versus someone fresh out of an associates program with zero experience. That's the reason why it's still possible to promote into engineering tech positions from certain field service and even skilled labor positions.

If you are already in the field and your employer is willing to pay $1,500 per year, that would probably cover most of your AAS at Penn Foster. You have very little to lose except the time spent on the program. A PF AAS is better than no degree.

PF also has ACE recommendations for SOME of their courses. So there exists the possibility that some of that coursework would transfer to TESC if you ever decided to continue toward your Bachelors.

But PF's big sell is that they are cheap and self paced. And that isn't necessarily bad. I have felt that PF courses are typically high quality. When I got horribly outdated computer texts from them I complained and they apologized, refunded my money and assured me the material was being updated. So I don't have any complaints about them over all.

That said, the price is good and it sounds like your company fully embraces it and is willing to put their money where their mouth is. Depending upon where you are in your career and where you hope to go this degree may help you achieve all of your goals. If you have eyes on becoming an engineer or moving around through different companies (more of a possibility if you are at the beginning of your career versus the tail end) then an RA, maybe even an ABET, accredited program may be a better fit for you.

 

Just a quick follow up...

Companies very seldom take positions toward specific degree programs. It happens for certain professions, to be sure. Law Firm A might only hire people from Harvard while Law Firm B never hires people from CUNY.

And I've spoken at length about how engineering hiring managers tend to favor their alma maters or the alma maters of their most treasured employees. If you get a good group of folks from Clemson you're likely to feel a warm and fuzzy feeling toward Clemson.

But at certain career levels there is far less "brand preference" when it comes to employee education. You may find a hiring manager who takes an especially hard view of Penn Foster. But if your engineers spend any length of time dwelling on PF's associates program you probably need new engineers, your old ones are not engineering enough.

It's also important to note that engineering technician is not necessarily a stepping stone to engineer. I have engineering techs with bachelors degrees (earned them while working as techs) who remain engineering techs. At my company, a tech IV makes significantly more than an Engineer 1. So if you are a tech III and earn that bachelors, it may be wiser to be a big fish in a little pond than start out at the bottom rung of the engineering ladder.

You know your goals best. And that PF degree may limit you if you choose certain future paths. If you're OK with the idea that your education may need to continue beyond PF then it might not be a bad choice for you.

 

A little bit about my job is I build machinery for manufacturing facilities as well as travel around installing and fixing our systems. Thats exactly what my engineer said he said I would much hire an engineer technician with experience and no degree over one fresh out of college. That being said he stated since I already have the experience if I had something else backing me besides the electrical trade schooling i have it would most definitely benefit me. I don't plan on becoming an engineer (atleast I dont think so) I am just trying to bring my career further along. I have been getting as many certificates as I can since my company pays for it but now I am looking to do something a little bit larger then a certificate. That being said I dont want to waste my time either and getting nothing out of it. Another question if anyone could answer is does anyone know how long it would take at penn foster to achieve this associates working full time (40-60 hours a week) . Thanks a lot for the quick replies

 

you might want to check your state's local CC, they might offer online AS in tech programs that can be really cheap too. Texas and Florida comes to mind when I think of per credit charges for CC programs. they can go below $100 per credit. New Mexico is another one. Clovis CC or New Mexico JC. $1500 from your employers and some Pell Grant $$ might be able to cover you for your whole AS degree. And CCs also have self paced courses, you'd have to check with them which offers what though.

 

Most DL programs will tell you that you'll need 10-15 hours per week per course. Someone who's wicked smart or experienced will probably need less. The standard advice is to take a course, check it out and then, if you can, load up.

 

The biggest drawback to PF (in the eyes of many employers) isn't that it is NA. It's that it is DL. Many engineers feel that engineering is best learned in either a lab or a shop floor, not in the comfort of your own home. PF is going to complement experience but it isn't going to win you any prizes for name recognition.

I know that EMpire State College at one point offered a B.S. In Industrial Engineering via DL. I don't know if this is still the case (or if they also offer an A.S.) and I'm on my phone right now so I can only really do one thing at a time.

But if you accept that 1) higher goals later will require more education and 2) that more education may involve PF credits not transferring then that's fine. Just go into the program with your eyes open for what it might reasonably do for your career while being aware of its limitations.

Yeah, ideally you'd get an A.S. From an RA school that transferred right into a B.S. Program. But I can tell you that the field techs at my company would never be able to do semester based learning while working full time. They are on the road non-stop and work some pretty crazy hours at times. That's part of the reason why we require a B.S. For the job.

If you CAN do semester based learning via DL then yes, by all means, consider an online program at an RA school. But if you need the self-paced option, PF might be your best shot. Again, an AAS from PF is better than no degree. "I was holding out for a better program when I had more time" isn't an impressive statement to a would-be employer.

 

Some states have state grants and a list of colleges that are recognized for such grant.
My relative lives on another coast, he earned Associates degree from Community College fully funded by the state- I think in CA they call it Cal-Grant.
It can be as high as 12k a year or in his case it was lower.
Now he gets 8 K for his senior year at Cal State LA.

As to your question about PF, check if their credit for the program you are taking is ACE
evaluated, this may help you in the future.

I agree that experience as Eng Tech is valued , what you can do and been doing is as important.

 

I can't go the community college route since I travel I cant really have a set schedule. Does anyone know how long a semester would take working a full time job ? I am curious since most of the reviews say it takes 8-12 months per a semester which would make the 2 year degree more like a 4 year degree.. I appreciate all of the reply's they've helped a lot with my decision!

 

No, it's absolutely true. There are many companies which will not accept a Penn Foster degree as sufficient for the educational requirements of even an engineering technician. On more than a few occasions during nuclear outages, upon audits I've ran into engineering technicians who had ITT, Penn Foster, or similar non-regionally accredited associate degrees and had to relieve them from their positions.

Experience is incredibly important, I mentioned that. I've hired plenty of engineers and technicians as well. That being said, we often still have minimum educational requirements and stipulations. Promoting field service or skilled labor positions into an engineering tech position is common, but it's also becoming rare for for modern skilled trade persons to not already have degrees. Most apprenticeships that are performed in conjunction or association with a community college often provide over 45 credit hours towards an AAS degree or require an associates before being admitted into the apprenticeship. In many industries, a large percentage of industrial maintenance journeyman even have four year degrees. Heck, some companies now even list four year engineering degrees as the preferred education to hire first year apprentices! After all, as you mentioned, field personnel such as skilled trades and engineering techs who choose to work overtime often make far more than office or project engineers, outside of the few that get into engineering management.

 

Seriously, I want to applaud your desire to return to school! It will help immensely in the long term, even while working in manufacturing.
What sort of electrical trade school education do you have? Have you earned an electricians journeyman card and/or license? Have you obtained documented NFPA70E training?
What manufacturing/industrial relevant certificates have you earned?

 

My own degree is in Mechanical Engineering Technology and my experience indicates that engineering companies are surprisingly aware of a large number of schools, their programs, the reputation of these programs, their competitors and other companies, the jobs within those companies and even specific contracts that these companies are working on. They have a very clear idea of what qualifications are required to do certain types of work.

 

In my humble opinion there will be limited utility to PF degree in this field.
Actually I know managers that will hire a person with no degree but qualifying experience then a person with what in their eyes mill degree.
I know PF is not a mill but the hiring managers and engineers in many forums a lot of time express that type of attitude toward NA schools.

But not all employers and not all companies, yet significant number of them.

 

Thank you very much..... I went to a 2 year trade school basically getting a certificate at the end of the schooling.. I do not yet have my journeyman's card although I do have my trainee card I was told getting the journeyman's card would have little to no effect on me unless I wanted to become an actual electricians.. I still think about getting my journeyman's card though.. Also I have not gotten the NFPA70E training as well.. I have gotten like 3 certificates in PLC Programming if you arn't familiar with PLCS they're basically the brains of industrial machninery.. I have also gotten certificates in the basics of Autocad though I am still teaching myself autocad day by day.. Plus I have a bunch of little certifications like OSHA and stuff like that but I feel the more I get the better..





Seems like there is always a bunch of mixed reviews about Penn Foster which does concern me especially when I will be putting so much time and effort towards something while traveling and working 40-60 hours a week.. I am not sure what the best route for me is since I am already employed in the field.. I can go to penn foster and get a degree that may or may not help me in the end or I can continue on the path that I have been on and try to get as many certifications as I can while continuing to rack up the experience year by year.... Defiantly a very hard choice in my opinion

 

Once, when I still had a motorcycle, I thought about the PF program in bike mechanics. I wanted to do my own repairs and modifications, maybe pick up a project bike to rebuild. I thought it would serve that purpose well. On the other hans, ifI applied for a job with that as my primary qualification I don't think it would get me very far.

 

Maybe I'm just tired from taking my daughter back to UT for her junior year or maybe because it's my busiest season and it's been a wild ride this summer but right now it looks to me like this thread has taken some weird turns. From whether PF offers an adequate education in engineering (a legitimate concern) to whether RA beats NA (a common never ending theme) to whether you can get a job fixing motorcycles with a PF diploma. What PF does best, and always has for over 125 years (just got to throw that in there because we had a thread one time that asked if PF is a scam; oh yeah they've scammed millions since 1890 smh) is that they fill a niche and do it quite well. The diplomas are a good starting point for those that are interested in the subject matter without investing a lot of money. If I want to learn about locksmithing I can take a course and get a well grounded beginners education in this subject. Am I going to be a professional locksmith when I graduate? No, but I should know whether this is a field I want to pursue and hey, if I ever lock myself out of my house or car I might know a thing or two about how to get in without busting the lock. But I digress like some of this thread. Can you go on and get an accredited degree from a USDOE and CHEA recognized college? Yes you can. Of course recognize the limitations you'll have with an NA degree (yes I know NA naysayers, I know). I don't know OP if PF will supply you with the engineering education you need. Only you can answer that by looking at the curriculum and understand what it can and cannot do and if it is the right fit for you. This is out of my wheelhouse. But I can assure you that PF is not a diploma mill, you will have to work for your education and like anything else you get out of it what you put into it. The two things PF does have going for it are ACE evaluated courses (just make sure that most of your engineering courses are ACE evaluated; do your due diligence) and that with an ACE transcript you can transfer to an RA institution should the need arise and you can attend a two week seminar at PSU during the 4th semester that is supposedly quite indepth (required for those without experience but you may want to do this should you go with PF). Good luck and keep us posted.

 

I think you clarified a number of positions quite clearly in your follow up post, but I just wanted to make a point or two here.

Of course. And I think that everyone has owned that fact. The advantage to an AAS from PF versus another NA school is that some of the coursework may transfer to a school like TESC because of the ACE recommendations.

That's a false dichotomy. We're not talking about a person with qualifying experience versus a person with a degree from PF. We're talking about a person with both a degree from PF and qualifying experience.

I think my greatest issue with statements like this is unsubstantiated terms like "many" and "a significant number." My company has one of the largest welding shops in New York State. We are a very large, publicly traded multi-national company. And yet, we will still employ an engineering technician with no degree or a degree from any USDOE accredited institution.

The problem with making blanket statements (and this to the earlier point made by Vonnegut as well) is that the scope of engineers, engineering jobs and those employing engineers varies very greatly. Vonnegut's experience isn't worthless but it is clearly based upon nuclear facilities. A nuclear facility does not follow the same process in hiring engineering technicians as a manufacturingl engineering shop. To try to take one's experience in nuclear facilities audits, extrapolate a conclusion about "engineering technicians" and apply it to engineering technicians in every field is not really going to give you an accurate picture.

While driving through rural New York a few weeks ago I happened upon four very small machine shops scattered throughout the countryside. Even if all four resoundingly reject PF degrees outright they employ, I would guess, absolutely no more than 400 people total. My company has nearly 10,000 employees in New York and would at least consider a PF graduate. So we can play the word game back and forth all day as to who has claim to the "many" the "most" and the "greater number" of employers on their side.

The game changes a bit when your employer is on board with something. My employer wholly supported my earning an NA degree. Does that mean the degree isn't limited? Of course not. But I also use mine to teach at a CC. I wouldn't apply to a position that specified they wanted someone with an RA Masters but I seldom see such postings. But my MSM doesn't impair me. An employer who requires an RA Masters likely wouldn't hire me if I didn't have a masters degree at all. Likewise, an employer who required a Masters degree (but didn't specify the type of accreditation) wouldn't hire me. Having an NA Masters degree simply opens up a few more windows even if some doors remain closed.

If you have experience as an engineering technician you can generally find work without a degree. Having a PF degree doesn't rob you of those opportunities. It opens up the opportunities with those employers who don't care about RA v. NA.