Online Education to become Attorney

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by TEKMAN, Aug 9, 2015.

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  1. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    It is interesting that several pretigous universities offer Master of Science in Law, which some claim that you can sit for the bar exam.

    University of Southern California's Master of Law (LL.M) does not require JD nor LSAT for admission. It also claims that California allows LL.M to sit for the bar exam.
    URL: http://onlinellm.usc.edu/docs/USC_LLM_Brochure.pdf

    Northwestern University offers a similar program, but mainly for pattern and intellectual property law.

    URL: Master of Science in Law, Academics: Northwestern University School of Law

    I assume this is an alternative getting a J.D to become an attorney.
     
  2. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    oops! Northwestern's program is not online, but Washington University at St. Louis is.
     
  3. novadar

    novadar Member

    The USC Program most certainly does require either a JD or foreign LLB/equivalent.

    PDF Page 5:

    Admissions Requirements
    International Students
    • First law degree (LL.B.) or equivalent outside of the United States
    • Official transcripts from all universities attended
    • Personal statement
    • 2 letters of recommendation
    • TOEFL or IELTS score (if applicable)
    TOEFL score: 100-IBT recommended
    • Resume
    • LSAT: Not required

    U.S. Students (Business Law Certificate only)
    • JD degree or equivalent
    • Official transcripts from all universities attended
    • Personal statement
    • 2 letters of recommendation
    • Resume
    • LSAT: Not required
     
  4. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    US Student not does not require JD, but only for the Business Law certificate program only.
     
  5. Koolcypher

    Koolcypher Member

    I think you are reading this wrong. The LL.M degree is open only to international students. And the Business Law Certificate program is open to both U.S and international students. In which case the U.S. Students most definitely need a J.D. degree.
     
  6. nyvrem

    nyvrem Active Member

    How do they defined international students ? A student's education qualifications that were taken at an overseas institute ? Or do they go by nationality ?
    If a US citizen went to UK to do an LLB, i would think he/she would qualify to do the LLM from a US college ?
     
  7. Koolcypher

    Koolcypher Member

    Great questions. I think they rely on citizenship status, either you are a U.S. citizen or not. But this is purely expeculation on my part. There's only one way to find out, and that is calling the school. I will call and send them an email on Monday, and will let you all know what I was told.
     
  8. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    If a person has a law degree from a foreign country, a U.S.-based LLM will, in a handful of U.S. jurisdictions, enable that LLM-holder to sit for the Bar. I believe NY and DC are among those jurisdictions, though don 't quote me on that. The LLMs involve one year of intense studies in the common law system in the U.S.

    This is not a one year online shortcut to becoming a U.S. attorney for U.S. citizens, it is for foreign law degree holders who need a degree in the U.S. to be qualified to sit for our Bar. But there may be a way in which one could take a shortcut to becoming an attorney through this method. I assume that were a U.S. resident to get an LLB via distance through the University of London, which takes three years and is an undergraduate option, that that U.S. citizen could then take a one year LLM in U.S. common law through one of these schools and finish up all their requirements within four years rather than the traditional (for the last 50 years or so) seven years which includes an undergraduate degree and three years of law school.

    Know, though, that not every state would allow this as a path.
     
  9. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I've never even gotten a peek at a bar exam and so I have no idea what they're like but I've heard that it's a tough exam to pass. Assuming that a non-US Bachelors level law degree would be only marginally relevant to the exam, the question in my mind is whether a one year LLM is adequate preparation to sit the bar.
     
  10. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    There are many companies that offer intensive tutorials to help candidates cram for upcoming BAR exams. Tutorials can be intensive multiple-weekend seminars held at a local hotel or can be week or month long seminars. Tutorials vary in duration, cost and quality. If someone graduated from a weak law program, then it is highly advisable to invest the time, money and study in an intensive tutorial to help pass a BAR exam.
     
  11. novadar

    novadar Member

    The official answer will be great to hear but I think "international studies" refers to those who completed their education outside the US, which could be a US citizen. In this case the US student must have a foreign equivalent to the JD, in other words an LLB.
     
  12. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Apparently, foreign trade LLM lawyers are not uncommon in New York. So they can successfully sit the bar; many of them go into solo practice (the firms prefer to hire JD-qualified lawyers). Here are two other LLM programs online: Florida Coastal, Thomas Jesserson. I'm pretty sure another state where it's possible is California.

    This is of a peripheral interest for me, as I almost made up my mind to go for the London LLB. Now, you definitely can't become a layer in Canada solely online (NCA mandates 2 years of classroom study for foreign graduates by distance). So I'll do it mostly for knowledge, but it's nice to know it's theoretically possible.
     
  13. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    Sure it would be. At least with regard to a distance program from a common law country such as the UofL LLB, it would be highly relevant. There are differences between the U.S. and Brit systems, but as the U.S. system is derived from the Brit, you'd have to master the fundamentals of common law to get the LLB anyway, including studies in torts, contracts, etc. The civil and criminal procedure, criminal law, U.S. constitutional law, etc., would presumably be covered in any moderately decent one year LLM program for foreign-trained attorneys. And for that matter, most of the material on the Bar is covered in the first year to year and a half of law school anyway, and the bar review courses such as Barpassers or Barbri are very rigorous.

    Having passed the Bar first time and seen what was covered, I can't imagine UofL LLB plus one year LLM on U.S. common law plus a bar review course wouldn't be excellent prep.
     
  14. Koolcypher

    Koolcypher Member

    Excellent insight. I have a co-worker who did just that. She has an LLB from the UK and she did an LLM in the States. She than sat for the NY Bar and passed it. Of course she no longer lives in the U.S. But she still is a licensed NY attorney and that has helped her here in Nicaragua when dealing with U.S. based attorneys.
     
  15. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    OK, so it's not entirely (although perhaps mostly) irrelevant but it's still just a one year program that is allegedly going to replace a 3 year US JD. Clearly it's possible but, I'd say the odds are against you. As for your weekend intensive study program, of course you can take one, or even two but a weekend program is intended to review material, not teach it. Reviewing material that you never learned in the first place has little value. Plus, remember that these courses are designed for newly minted JDs. You'd have to assume that most people planning on taking the bar exam will be taking one of these courses (I know I would) and yet the pass rate it still only 70%.

    Here we go again: February 2015 bar pass rates down over last year

    So don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say it can't be done, I'm just trying to point out that there are some real risks with this plan (or any plan regarding law degrees). I don't want anyone to get the impression that you can quickly earn a one year LLM, take a test and so easily become a lawyer.
     
  16. Hmmmm...I can't find the thread but another lawyer (think he went to LSU) and I discussed this a little about a year or two ago. First off, there are only three (generally speaking) states that I know of in which they would be able to sit for the bar. That's California, New York, and Georgia. Georgia is just allowed it for the past bar exam so it's still a fairly new concept for us here. So if you want to practice in one of those states...not to bad of an idea. The problem is the LLB. From what I've heard, the UoL LLB is actually pretty hard. I'm not saying law school isn't hard but I don't have much faith in a 18 year fresh out of high school to complete the program. The bar isn't about what you've learned in law school. It's about taking the test. My school required us to take the courses that were tested on the bar but the large majority of bar takers when I did my bar review course were seeing half of subjects for the first time. With that said, most passed. It just takes an ungodly amount of dedication.
     
  17. Garp

    Garp Well-Known Member

  18. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    51% ???:jester::wow:
     
  19. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    Let me tell you something about your friend, she kicked butt passing that NY Bar, which is traditionally considered the most or second most difficult in the country--California is the other killer Bar.
     
  20. The majority of those that I took the bar with were first time takers so it was more like 75%. :fing02: :rolleyes: lol

    That was about 3 years ago and I've heard things have changed and that the test is a bit rougher now.
     

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