A GCU PhD Experience

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by PuppyMama, Jul 17, 2015.

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  1. PuppyMama

    PuppyMama New Member

    I'm not sure if anyone here remembers, but at one time, I had an interest in GCU's Ph.D. I was a bit turned off by the incessant phone calls and emails among other things and I decided against it. Anyway, I have a friend who has finished his coursework and is working on his dissertation. I went to lunch with him yesterday and he is beyond frustrated. I was wondering if anyone here is having this same problem?

    He told me that although students are supposed to be working on their dissertations throughout the program, and although he had selected his research topic in the beginning, it took almost a year before his topic was approved. Those who were supposed to be helping/approving things were not answering his emails, staff would change, people would refuse to read his prospectus, etc. The school initially states that it takes 3 classes to complete the dissertation but since he cannot get anyone to respond to him, he is now enrolled in his 8th dissertation course and he STILL has not begun his research because the powers that be will only read part of his prospectus, etc. The only way he can work on his project is if he is taking classes so he believes that the school has intentionally caused this to happen so that he (and other students) has to keep paying for classes. Since he has already invested so much, he feels that his only choice is to pay, pay, pay. According to him, other students say that this has happened to them. GCU boasts that their Ph.D.s are roughly $40K. I believe he said he is already into it $55,000 because of this, and there is no end in sight. He is paying out-of-pocket, so he is feeling it upfront.

    I have personally read stories about schools like Walden and University of Phoenix doing this, but for some reason, I thought Grand Canyon would be better. I feel so sorry for anyone who is caught up in it. I do not know why the government is willing to feed student loan dollars into something like this. They know everything (they probably know my favorite brand of tampon) so you can't tell me they don't know that some schools do this. Why haven't they regulated this?

    Has anyone else had this problem?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2015
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    EVERYONE (who's done a doctorate) has had this (or a similar) problem. It isn't unique to DL schools, RA schools, US schools, For-profit schools, or any other sector. It isn't unique to Walden, UoP, GCU, etc. It just is.

    The key in this kind of situation is to get heard. Talk to someone. Talk to anyone. Talk to everyone (but one at a time so you don't look troublesome by firing an e-mail fusillade.)

    No magic bullet to offer, just a suggestion of persistence. I've found that universities don't offer the doctorate--you have to take it, snatching it from their clutches.
     
  3. PuppyMama

    PuppyMama New Member

    I suppose I had a really supportive master's program then. I realize that master's programs can be a different animal than Ph.D.s, but my experience was that my research proposal and human subjects review were all completed within a week and I was able to finish my thesis (which was significant enough to be a dissertation) in two semesters. I have some family members with traditional Ph.D.s and I see your point; the schools DO drag them out. I think the difference, though, is that those programs were funded and so while my family members continued to give what was basically slave labor to their respective departments, they weren't having to pay a ton of money to do so. Also, what kind of bugs me is that GCU has misrepresented the expected dollar amount... it sounds like it's closer to $60K (or more) than $40K. I guess there are tradeoffs though. At least with GCU, you can complete coursework online from afar. Interesting.
     
  4. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    I have heard my share of horror stories about people at large B&M universities working for years on a PhD, then having an adviser/mentor go to another university and suddenly being left completely out in the cold. But the OP should be all over them to support him, otherwise he'll be left with massive debt and nothing to show.
     
  5. PuppyMama

    PuppyMama New Member

    FTFaculty,

    It is interesting you say that. My thesis chair told me to be wary of whomever I choose as a mentor once I begin my Ph.D. She said that she had personally seen mentors steal their students' ideas and take all of the credit for them. Traditional universities are certainly not without their own bag of corruption but like you say, my friend is going to end up with a lot of debt and no degree if he is not careful. At least at a B&M, you are likely on a stipend/tuition waver and are not getting deeply into debt. Also, if you stick it out, you can expect to graduate at some point. My husband actually just contacted HIS friend who is also in a GCU Ph.D. program, and they are doing the same thing to him. His experience was that he just paid for a $3,000 dissertation course during which he waited the entire 8 weeks for feedback on his prospectus and never received it because the professor had "heath problems" (how convenient). He is still being billed for the course and has received absolutely no benefit whatsoever. He is petitioning the university for the return of his money since he paid for nothing. I think you just have to be very selective about which university you choose when earning a Ph.D. We were wondering if anyone else out there was having this kind of experience specifically at GCU, which is my reason for the OP.
     
  6. FJD

    FJD Member

    I'm approaching the research phase for the PhD at GCU, so I can't comment from experience. I know that the PhD program is relatively new and has only a few graduates (the first of whom finished on time, however). The school graduates students every month from the more-established EdD program (9 in May, 5 in April, and 6 in March), so the school is producing doctoral graduates. I frequent the doctoral learner discussion boards at the school and no one has been complaining about the issues you raise. I'm not denying that some student are having a tough time, but I have not observed anything personally that gives me the sense that the school is not supporting its learners. My sense is actually the opposite.

    On July 1, the school implemented a new policy aimed at offering more support to its learners during the dissertation phase, so this revision may have been in response to some of the problems you mention. They have also made residencies mandatory for the PhD as of July 1st as well. Everything GCU does tells me that they really want their doctoral students to finish, but as Dr. Douglas notes above, the expectation is that the learner will earn his/her keep.
     
  7. PuppyMama

    PuppyMama New Member

    FJD,

    I think it is awesome that your observations are different and I hope they are the norm and that your experience continues to be positive. My friend was telling me that the discussion boards were actually saying that everyone should plan on staying at GCU for an extra year due to the slow dissertation process. Have you seen anything about that at all? I suppose it is possible that you are in different programs so maybe you haven't. My friend is in one of the education doctorates. My husband's friend, however, is in the psychology program. He said that he and another student were having this problem. Of course, there are probably a LOT of students there so 3 people cannot necessarily represent every student.

    It's good to hear that someone out there is having a better experience. Even after I decided not to go to GCU, I debated it a few more times. I dunno. I think it's probably a decent school... still, I hesitate.
     
  8. edowave

    edowave Active Member

    I totally agree with what Rich said. This kind of thing is hardly unique to GCU. Just read some of the stories on PhinisheD.

    For that reason, and my own experience, I dont' advise anyone to do a research doctorate unless there is absolutely nothing else you want to do in life. And if you do decide to go that path, certainly don't take out student loans to pay for one! Get an assistantship or try to find an employer that will cover it.
     
  9. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I think the idea that a student at a B&M can ride the problem out and eventually get their degree is a bit of a lofty assumption. My colleague (PhD, MIT) tells me that his roommate was, years into his program, simply informed he wouldn't be receiving his PhD. He had done great research. His doctoral advisor published the results of that research (absent the names of the slave-students who did the work). No explanation. Just a handshake, take your masters and don't let the door hit you on the behind on your way out.

    What he told me (which turned me off of the idea of a PhD) is that some schools are very pro-your success. They want you to succeed. Other schools (and, as he made it sound, there was quite a bit of difference between the various programs within some schools) really couldn't care less if you earned the degree, dropped out, dropped dead or sprouted wings and achieved enlightenment. In those situations PhD candidates were just being used as research fodder. At a for-profit school they are being used for tuition dollars. Different greedy methods that result in the same end; the student gets screwed.

    Now, I don't like "friend of a friend" type anecdotes normally. I have no idea why that roommate was denied a doctorate. It's very possible that there was a completely reasonable explanation (and maybe he even had ample opportunity to prevent that outcome). But I can tell you that my colleague was rather terrified that he would have wasted multiple years of his youth and only had a Masters degree to show for it. I think it was probably part of what turned him off of academic research. But there's an example of a PhD student at an elite university who, justifiably or not, that large and respected B&M university was going to screw him over at any minute and deny him the degree he had dedicated himself to.

    So, you know, grass is always greener and such.
     

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