UNISA EdD Worthless?

Does a degree from UNISA make you "damaged goods?" I'm nearly finished with the Online Teaching and Learning MS Ed from Cal State-Hayward. I'm still information shopping and have been eyeballing the EdS program at Mizzou-Columbia.

I was reading threads on UNISA and there seems to be a huge difference of opinion on it. If I would manage to actually wade thru the process of application and make it thru the EdD program, would it make me less than employable? I've been teaching ESL in Asia since 1995 and sort of would like to end up at the Community College level. Would an American degree be better? I'm quite concerned about the cost, as I am still paying off student loans and don't want any more.

Comments please.

 

In my experience, South African degrees are accepted by registrars as being roughly equivalent to other Commonwealth degrees of the same level. The school is somewhere in the neighborhood of 130 years old, and boasts Nelson Mandela (BA, 1942; LLB, 1989) and Desmond Tutu (BA, 1954) among its alumni, as well as (if memory serves) the wife of the head of the Southern Baptist Convention. In a fair world, a degree from UNISA would have plenty of marketability.

That said: (a) South Africa's university system is undergoing radical change, and there is a possibility that UNISA's name may be changed to something less marketable ("The Open Learning University of South Africa" was mentioned as a possibility) and (b) It's a correspondence degree from South Africa, so of course some narrow-minded people are going to snicker at that.

What would I recommend? Well, I applied for a UNISA doctorate myself in 1996, so that may answer your question. I was turned down, of course--a B.A. in Liberal Arts does not and should not entitle someone to move right along to a research doctorate in Philosophy--and by the time I finished my master's, I had decided that UNISA wasn't right for me. Your mileage may or may not vary.

If you do find yourself looking elsewhere, I'd like to make an unbiased recommendation: Buy a copy of Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning. I say this for two reasons. The first, and most important, is that I'm a royalty-earning author. Also noteworthy is that it does include a fairly comprehensive chapter on doctoral programs in education and closely related fields.

Good luck.


Cheers,

 

Several unrelated issues:
1. ESL community college teaching is an almost impossible field to break into. Many/most of the positions will go to people who have either been adjuncts for the college or who have quite significant experience at the CC level.

2. Most CCs don't require doctorates and there can even be a bias against hiring someone with one. A doctorate in education will not likely make you a better ESL teacher.

3. As far as Ed.D. programs go, I think UNISA is a reasonable choice. Make sure, though, that you already have the MA in this field (TESOL, Applied Linguistics, what have you) because you will need it to even be considered for a CC job.


Good luck!


Tom Nixon

 

Sorry, I guess that I should have been more specific, I don't want to teach ESL anymore. It's pretty boring, but I like teaching. I'm looking for a way to get the biggest bang for my buck as far as an EdD.

 

No problem. So what would your teaching area be at this community college?



Tom Nixon

 

...snipped...

It depends, to a large degree, on what area in which you'd like to be employed. Not teaching ESL? How about Accounting or Agriculture or Anthropology or Aviation or ... In other words, why not get a Doctoral degree in the area in which you'd like to teach. BTW, I'd like to know which postings you've read that caused you to wonder if a PhD from UNISA would designate you as "damaged."
Jack

 

There are other threads about how some PhD's look down on EdD's, what I was wondering if it is more so from a distance ed program out of the USA.

 

Depends on where you're teaching and what your other credentials are (and what everybody else's credentials are). If you're teaching at a community college where only 20% of the faculty holds a doctorate and nobody has done any significant peer-reviewed publications, I'd imagine you would sitting pretty with a South African Ed.D., though some (the fellow with an M.A. who always wanted to do a doctorate, but had to take care of his sick mother-in-law; the fellow who spent 8 years at an Ivy League school to earn his Ph.D. in History and then couldn't get a job at any university, so he had to teach at a community college instead; etc.) might always hold it against you. But then, they might do the same even if you earn a brick-and-mortar Ph.D.

FWIW: The guy who taught my graduate-level counseling class at Mississippi College was a licensed professional counselor with a master's in the field, who capped it off with an Ed.D. He had enough teaching and counseling experience (30 years of each, I think) that nobody really treated him any differently than they would have if he had a Ph.D. in Psychology; he was really an exceptional professor, though our opinions on certain social issues relevant to counseling were very different.


Cheers,

 

Follow Up on UNISA

Tom, do you have any idea as to how UNISA grads fare in U.S. universities even as adjuncts? And yes, I would certainly not want a degree from "The Open University of South Africa" or anything remotely similar. DL already has its share of prejudice.

What led you to Edith Cowan University? How are the costs?

Thanks for your comments.

 

Re: Follow Up on UNISA

None whatsoever; I know that there have been some full-time professors with UNISA doctorates, but I don't know how successful the average UNISA doctorate-holder is in securing a teaching post.

I wouldn't mind it if the name had a little history; but what they're basically doing is taking a very good university name (University of South Africa) and scrapping it for no logical reason.

Initially, the reputation of a guy named Edward Crangle, who used to head their religious studies department; he was big on Buddhist studies, mind-body philosophy, comparative mysticism, etc. Think of him as an Aussie version of B. Alan Wallace. I assumed his former presence there (he's now teaching at Sydney, I believe) would have translated to an exceptionally good range of potential supervisors with interdisciplinary interests, and I was correct. Both of my supervisors have lectured at Ivy League schools in the States; my principal supervisor is a philosopher with a very strong background in ethics and religious studies, and my first associate supervisor is a religious historian with a very strong rabbinics background.

International fees are AU$3400/semester for a part-timer, or a little under US$2000 with current exchange rates. Higher than South Africa, but still quite manageable, and much less expensive than the average U.S. or U.K. doctorate.

You're most welcome!


Cheers,

 

The name change is less of a concern to me than the implied change in their academic practices. Unisa has in the past made the point that it's not an "open" university (in the sense that UK Open U. is) because it doesn't have open enrollment, but instead has exactly the same admissions standards as South Africa's other public universities. Open enrollment may be beneficial to South Africa for various reasons, but will surely get in the way of the university being treated as a peer of the other public universities.

 

No Name Change in the Works for UNISA

I spoke with a Dr. Michael Esselen who apparently represents UNISA in Canada. He later sent an email saying the following:

"Yes you are right, the rumour of a name change was there but, it has been settled between Unisa's principal and the ministry of education in South Africa. So, as far as I know it will stay the same i.e UNISA."

As Gert points out, "open university" may give the wrong impression about the school. UNISA certainly does not have an open enrollment policy.

 

As it has been pointed out before, jobs in the academic field are getting more difficult to get. An EdD from UNISA can be a good option for someone that is already teaching and need a doctorate for a promotion or raise, but if you are planning to come back to the US with an EdD from a third world country you should expect difficulties getting a job. The best bet would be to get one from a US university like Capella or Argosy, or at least a UK or Australian degree in case your budget is tight. University of southern queensland has an EdD with small residences. In Canada the Australian degree is well accepted since I have seen several people teaching full time with a credential from that country. I think is better to pay a bit more money and go for a degree that can be good for a career advancement. I know that we have a lot of supporters from UNISA in this group, but the reality is that people with degrees from third world countries always have problems getting an opportunity and more in the crowed market of the academia.

 

I have to accept your personal experience but I know I have seen UNISA PhD's as faculty in various seminaries and in one case newly heading a Canadian Seminary. Argosy and Capella have their problems too which is the stigma of a DL school. The South African University system has an excellent reputation in terms of quality and although the country has slid economically since the end of Apartheid (spelling) I think the country is not considered third world but more second world. South Africa is one of the most well off and stable countries in Africa in spite of its problems. It remains to be seen if things will improve or continue to slip. Hopefully not to the disaster level that is Zimbabwe.

North

 

Here are some of the examples:

http://www.acts.twu.ca/philzylla.html

http://www.twu.ca/academics/religiousstudies/professors.asp

 

Professor Brenda Gourley, the Vice-Chancellor of the Open University of the UK, is the former Vice-Chancellor of the University of Natal and is a graduate of both the University of Witwatersrand and the University of the South Africa.

Further information can be accessed at:

http://www.gbn.org/public/gbnstory/network/individuals/ex_gourley.htm

http://www.open.ac.uk/about

 

After reading your comments, I decided to so some research about canadian faculty with PhDs from University of South Africa and I must say that I was surprised to see quite many. It seems that it would satisfy the requirements of some universities on a case-by-case basis. Here is the evidence

http://www.uwo.ca/french/profs/dbevan.htm

http://calendars.registrar.yorku.ca/pdfs/AK1999Calendar/ak99pg144.pdf

http://www.ecf.utoronto.ca/apsc/registrar/calendar/chapter12.PDF

 

I've looked through the cited links. I don't find a proliferation of South African terminal degree holders. Yes, there are a few. But I would argue that the percentage does not necessarily suggest acceptance of those degrees.

I believe that American Universities may not be as welcoming of such degree holders as Canadian insitutions. Just last evening I spoke with an associate who is a departmental chair at a major university. She was clear that non-US schools are viewed with jaundiced eyes by US schools when selecting faculty. She went on to say the obvious exception would be an Oxford or Cambridge grad.

 

Just to be clear on a minor point: RFValve was looking for graduates of the University of South Africa specifically -- not of all South African universities.

 

It is positive to see that the Dean at Columbia Business School has a B.A. and PhD from South African universities (with a Columbia Business School MBA).

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/02_12/b3775119.htm