More For-Profit Closures

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Neuhaus, May 18, 2015.

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  1. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

  2. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    Wow, this is a harsh and overly negative statement:

    "... collapse is a long overdue reckoning for an industry that profits off of students while sticking them with a worthless degree and insurmountable debt," Senator Dick Durbin, an Illinois Democrat, said in a written statement."

    While true in many cases, the for-profit degrees I earned have served me well and did not put me into excessive debt.


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    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2015
  3. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Agreed.

    Part of the problem is that people have just lumped all "for-profit" schools together. Nationally accredited. Regionally accredited. Career focused. Higher ed. Associates level. Doctoral level. It doesn't matter to the critics, it's just all "bad."

    Lumping someone with an outdated A.A. from Everest, accredited by ACICS, with someone who has a Ph.D. in Psychology from Capella, which is RA, and who earned a state license to practice as a psychologist doesn't make much sense to me.

    It also calls into question the statements about "worthless degrees."

    Rather than hurting "the industry" these critics are really just hurting hardworking people. Someone who busted his/her butt to earn a degree from Heald now has a piece of paper from a publicly disgraced school. Even though there were no accusations against Heald. Even though there were no claims that Heald was offering subpar curriculum, by virtue of association, graduates of Heald are going to be labeled.

    Public opinion has basically overtaken accreditation. It isn't enough that your degree is regionally accredited anymore because the court of public opinion has determined that even an RA degree can be "a bogus degree."

    It's academic snobbery.

    If we closed all for-profit schools tomorrow, these same critics would like turn on schools like TESC or Charter Oaks. The wolves will always find something to tear apart.
     
  4. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    No surprise. Dick Durbin has been grandstanding on this issue for years.
     
  5. major56

    major56 Active Member

    It keeps him in the limelight … there are no virtues among whores. :smoker:
     
  6. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    One of the biggest issues with politics is that it is teeming with politicians.
     
  7. DxD=D^2

    DxD=D^2 Member

    I have to agree, too. I am not one who typically supports for-profits. However, I respect certain for-profits, because they actually provide, in my opinion, a meaningful and cost-effective degree program. I like American Public University System. I think they have a good reputation, but yet they are for-profit. I also like American College of Education, because their tuition is very inexpensive and they provide meaningful degrees that equip working professionals to expand their career horizons without breaking the bank. I think if the mass majority of for-profits were to follow this model, they may have less scrutiny from the general public.
     
  8. major56

    major56 Active Member

  9. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator


    Maybe one could even say "infested" with politicians.
     
  10. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Politician bashing aside, I think this is actually good news.

    There were no complaints at Heald College. It was the nationally accredited career schools that really got Corinthian in trouble. Paying $30k for an associates degree is insane. When you can't even transfer the credits to an RA school, I can see why people (who didn't research accreditation) would be incredibly upset. Say what you will about UoP, but at least an (overpriced) associates degree from there would transfer readily to one of the big 3 for a bachelors. There are also people who graduated from Heald years before Corinthian was even incorporated who now have their educations tarnished by this whole mess.

    If you notice, CEC says that 75% of their enrollments are through AIU and CTU. So the remaining 25% is scattered across a portfolio of schools which, quite frankly, is likely not worth the regulatory headache. That aside, an attack against CEC is more likely to originate in one of these schools. Teach them out. Sell what you can. Focus on the schools that have the most promise. Sounds to me like a healthy business realignment rather than the death rattle for "the industry."

    I've also noticed that CTU has been stepping up branding lately. I've been following them on LinkedIn for years. They used to basically blanket LinkedIn with ads. Now I'm seeing a lot more charitable work and career planning advice.

    SNHU feels that the for-profit schools had lessons for the non-profit education world. And I get the feeling that some in the for-profit education world have taken a few lessons from the non-profit side of the house. Hopefully the result is that schools, both for and non-profit, will be better and stronger for the effort. The schools which refused to learn anything from the past 10-15 years can either rest easy on their endowments or get priced out of the market, depending upon their situations. But I respect the heck out of any school that does its best to adapt to changing times to remain relevant.
     
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2015
  12. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    ITT Tech is a school that I really can't form a solid opinion on, personally. I have a similar problem with DeVry.

    Years ago it wasn't uncommon to run into a person who graduated from either school. They seemed to be well represented in the technician world. But, as time goes on, there seem to be far fewer people looking to become "technicians" and many more people thinking they can CLEP their way to becoming a CTO.

    So it's hard to tell if it was a good technical school that got a bit too big for its britches or if it is just another Everest forcing students in 2015 to pass exams on how to troubleshoot Windows 95. Regardless of their core nature, I think it will be very interesting to see how this plays out. I feel like ITT Tech is in the most trouble, as far as for-profit operators go, at this point. It seems like the rest are streamlining operations or switching to non-profit.
     
  13. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    And it looks like Mr. Durbin is now pushing to restrict CEC, EDMC and ITT from selling their schools. It looks like he's not willing to settle for anything less than a complete collapse.
     
  14. major56

    major56 Active Member

    In an additional related example … I’ve considered the Keller Graduate School of Management to be a credible education source for its program/s offering … AND even preceding its (KGSM) LBO acquisition of DeVry. Additionally, this B-School holds reputable programmatic accreditations (i.e., ACBSP, PMI and SHRM). Despite that, it’s likely the DeVry Education Group (i.e., DeVry University) for-profit brand linkage is the strategy being used to further generate the politically agented (e.g., Durbin) agenda to perpetuate, at a minimum, a US Senator /DOE muscled perceptional negativity bandwagon mind-set that incorporates [all] educational for-profits.
     
  15. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    I don't think it will be much of a challenge for CEC to move Le Cordon Bleu. It's a very prestigious brand. And if faced with the choice of an unmarketable school being closed or potentially bringing down the entire company, I think they have shown that they will gladly cut off the finger to save the hand.

    As a CTU alumnus, my obvious concern would be that my alma mater go the way of Heald.
     
  16. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Another ACICS school is closing.

    The Drake College of Business in New Jersey will be shutting its doors.

    ACICS must be having a rough time of this. In quick succession they are losing Everest, Sanford Brown, Drake and Missouri College will be on the chopping block if CEC can't find a buyer.
     

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