Law-School accreditors to vote on DL proposal

Article in Chronicle: Law-School Accreditors Will Vote Saturday on Distance-Education Proposal.

Snippet:

• The accrediting body of the American Bar Association will decide Saturday whether to recommend that law schools be allowed to create distance-education courses for credit. ...
  Students would still have to be in residence at a traditional law school to earn a law degree approved by the American Bar Association ...

 

I'm not very optimistic, but I'm also not sure for how much longer the ABA can ignore the DL explosion. If this does pass it's only a small step, but a step nonetheless.


Bruce

 

Ideally, one could convince the various state Bar authorities to accept non-ABA degrees. Many do, after a few years' experience on the part of the applicant.

Nosborne, JD

 

15% seems an odd number. Perhaps a negotiated settlement of some sort? It sounds as they are talking entire DL courses, not 15% of each course. So I guess that might mean, what, two out of the 15 or 16 courses in a JD program could be DL? If so, there probably would still need to be three full years of residency, but perhaps a little less work for two of the six semesters.

Next thought: unless the ABA mandates which courses can be taught by DL, we could see the interesting situation in which enough ABA schools develop enough DL courses that some entrepreneur could assemble a collection of them, representing the complete JD curriculum, all ABA approved.

In other words, "Here at Belli University, in California, we require that you take the following ABA-approved DL courses from the following ABA-accredited universities. On completion of them, we award you our JD. And then we'll support you in your fight for the right to take the Bar in whatever damn state you live in, based on having completed an entire law degree with ABA-approved courses."

 

The way the proposal is structured, the ABA is dictating that almost all of the required courses must be taught face-to-face. Apparently, a first year student cannot do any D/L.

The first year, however, almost always and almost everywhere contains basic courses such as contracts, torts, criminal law, real property, constitutional law, legal research and writing, civil procedure, ethics, and some form of advocacy. The student might be allowed one elective in his second semester.

After the first year, the vast majority of courses are elective. These courses could, I suppose, be taken by D/L. So the closest one could get to a complete D/L degree would be to spend the first year in residence somewhere.

N.B. This is why the California Bar does not require students who complete their first year at an ABA or Bar approved resident school to take the Baby Bar, even if that student completes his J.D. by correspondence. It is in the first year that the student acquires his fundamental understanding of the law. Or flunks out!

This is also why the University of London provides astonishing support for its LLB external students during their first year study. They provide textbooks and special computer software. In some areas, there are even residental schools designed to get the student through that first year, after which he is expected to study on his own.

Nosborne, JD

 

I am very excited!!

Good Day All!

Lets face it...a step, however so small, is still a step. This vote gets the proposition on the floor and into the minds of the ladies and gentlemen that may eventually hold the future of ABA Accredited Law Schools having a distance learning "option" for an entire program.

I have just enrolled at Chapman Univ. and the time I will spend commutting in and out to school everyday is gonna be a bear!! Hopefully in a few years the next guy won't have to do the same...I sincerely believe its up to people like us to ask the questions, propose the concepts, and continue to work hard until we reach our goals.

I am writing a letter to the ABA and I am going to present my individual information as an example....single father, veteran, successful career but limited because traditional B&M School has not been an option to me in the past...they may be missing out on someone whom has already proven himself personally & Professionally! A Moot Arguement?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for DL but the fight is going to extend **far** beyond the right to take the bar exam of any particular state.

ABA acceptance is one very, very small step; the larger battle will be convincing potential employers to (even remotely) consider hiring someone with a distance J.D. This is one **extremely** snobbish profession where many **continually** argue about whether the law school ranked #4 by USNWR is really better than the school ranked #5. These same people have virtually zero respect for schools in the second tier (or even the bottom of the top tier) and consider graduates of fourth tier schools semi-retarded. Although I don't share that view, the reality is that I personally know more than just a handful of lawyers who were unable to find acceptable employment after graduating from top schools.

The bottom line is that even if a distance J.D. will qualify the holder thereof to take a state bar exam and obtain a license, it won't suffice for much more than being able to hang out a shingle or, perhaps, obtain substandard employment (considering the time, work, and expense of obtaining the degree and licensure).

 

Homer...you are pretty accurate but...

There are always exceptions! I know a gentleman who went to a law school that would argueably be considered to be even sparsely qualified to be in the bottom tier as far as law schools are concerned, but this gentleman just negotiated a contract for an NBA kid and received a personal renumeration of nearly $900k...so imagine how much the player received.

Your argument, although you make it in regard to Law Schools, covers much, much more. Do guys who graduate from TESC have a chance when competing against Harvard grads...I would like to think so, because if there is not competition except among top-tier schools...why get a higher-education anyway? If schoools like TESC, COSC, and Excelsior have alum working throughout business and industry...why shouldn't Graduates from OakBrook be allowed to practice law in Texas?

That's why there has always been and always will be progress.

BTW, the "giant Killer" the afro-american lawyer who won $100's of Millions fighting against big companies such as: Wal-Mart, Sears, American Airlines, and Ford Motor Company went to a bottom tier school that many people have not even heard of (I am afro-american and hadn't heard of the school until I saw this gentleman speak in San Diego last week).

 

Re: Homer...you are pretty accurate but...

Okay, there will ALWAYS be "exceptions". However, the reason we refer to certain people as "exceptions" is because whatever occurred in their careers is simply not the norm. What about, for example, a certain Harvard dropout who is now the wealthiest person in the U.S.? Do you suppose the vast majority of Harvard dropouts are kicking butt in the business world?

Regardless, we're mixing issues. The question of whether a graduate from a non ABA-approved, DL-type law school should be allowed to obtain a license is entirely separate from whether that same person could reasonably expect to compete with grads of top tier ABA-approved schools in the market for legal employment. In my previous post, I was merely pointing out that, with respect to the latter issue, the non ABA-approved grad, in the foreseeable future, will be facing an uphill battle.

 

Sorry to nit pick and fall back on semantics...

However, I am very passionate about seeing someone actually graduate from a DL Law school and have a chance to practice in a state other than California...right away!

I apologize for being anectdotal in my mentioning of exceptions, but exceptions become the rule eventually! Like I mentioned before...I had never heard of Thomas Edison a few years ago, but without it I wouldn't have my job and "I" am in a capacity that can ensure that other TESC, COSC, & Excelsior Grads can obtain employment. It takes one person to jump that hurdle!

Regards..

Mike